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Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: I have regularly expressed my concern about the erosion of sovereignty which naturally comes about as our membership of the European Union. It is my view that we should only ever cede sovereignty when we are absolutely clear that it is in the best interests of the Irish people to do so. The Minister will recall that Protocol No. 21, which is attached to the EU treaties and essentially...

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: Deputy Callaghan and Senator Ruane are indicating. I have a couple of questions. I will ask them together. The Minister mentioned that Ireland is currently subject to 12 readmission agreements. Will he give us a breakdown of how many of these are EU-wide agreements? Are any of them bilateral agreements? I note that quite a number of EU states, including Germany, the Netherlands, Poland,...

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: Since when was that?

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: The Senator can come back in later.

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: I have no other Members indicating. I have a few questions but members can indicate if they want to jump in at any stage. The Minister mentioned there have been 12 IP applications from Kazakhstan since 2019 and one was subject to a deportation order. Should I take it that the other 11 applications were approved?

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: Am I correct in saying the Minister does not know whether the deportation order was enforced? Does he know whether the person subject to the deportation order is in Kazakhstan or has left the State?

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: When was the deportation order issued?

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: The Minister does not know whether-----

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: Is that not part of the problem?

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: There is a difference between return agreements and readmission agreements in that the latter covers citizens of third countries who might have come through Kazakhstan, in this case. Would it be fair to say part of the impetus from an EU perspective is not Kazakhstani citizens - the Minister indicated the numbers are fairly small - but citizens of third countries who have travelled through...

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: It will only apply to citizens of Kazakhstan.

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: This is important. I have tried to understand the urgency the Minister is attaching to this particular opt-in. From an Irish perspective, since 2019 we have dealt with one individual who would be affected by this. Other members may have been in the Houses for longer than me but, in my experience, this is unique in that we are being asked to endorse something without having the full...

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: I will come to that-----

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: I have a couple of questions on that but I want to deal with the specific issues in respect of Kazakhstan. As of last month, Kazakhstan was not on the EU list of safe countries of origin. It is not on the Irish list of safe countries of origin and I am not aware of it being on any EU member state's safe country of origin list. I could be wrong on that but certainly it is not on the Irish...

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: I hear what members are saying that it is better to be inside than out. The difference in this instance is that once we are part of the negotiation, we are part of it. The final vote will be taken by qualified majority vote. Is that correct?

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: At the end of the negotiation mandate, the Minister, the Government and the Houses of the Oireachtas might decide this is not in Ireland's interests but we will be subject to qualified majority voting in terms of the negotiation.

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: I will come to that.

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: It does and in many aspects of our engagement with European Union, we are locked in because of the Lisbon Treaty. The Lisbon Treaty purposely provided for this protocol that actually gave us an opt-in in this instance. Essentially, the Minister is giving up that opt-in in this case.

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: Of course. However, does the Minister accept that it would cause a diplomatic headache, to put it mildly, and could potentially be diplomatically damaging were we to opt in to the negotiations and then subsequently not opt in to the agreement? I am saying this as a member of the-----

Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration: Readmission Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Kazakhstan: Discussion (29 May 2025)

Matt Carthy: Yes.

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