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Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: Tell that to Deputy Flanagan-----

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: He should stick to the truth.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: It is not untrue.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: Including the Minister of State's party.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: The Minister of State referred to hypocrisy. I remember hearing Ian Paisley speak about "high-pocrisy" and this is "low-pocrisy" if ever I came across it. Almost every spokesperson trotted out is a former Member of the House. It reminds me of Animal Farm, where, after a while, the pigs started standing up on their trotters and by the end of the book, they were indistinguishable from Farmer...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: Let me tell the Minister of State-----

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: Let me tell the Minister of State about Jim O'Keeffe.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: Let me tell the Minister of State about his own hypocrisy and that of the Government. He dared to invoke the convention and Jim O'Keeffe in the House. Mr. O'Keeffe was the author of major consultation papers on constitutional reform.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: He stated the people should be involved in the nomination process of the President. It was signed off by every party and has never been revoked. Legislation was even introduced. I produced it at the convention; I managed to smuggle it in before the micromanagers got in. The convention is micromanaged to within an inch of its life. A total of 94% of the people at the convention stated the...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: I am not wrong. Tell me how I am wrong.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: I do not give a damn whether you were listening or not. It is all on the record. I am telling the truth.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: I want to nail some of what the Minister of State said. The convention has been turned into a mockery when 94% demanded this but the Government took three items which had 52% agreement. This tells a story. Why has the Government already spent €2.1 million on this? Will we have funding for the "No" side of the campaign?

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: The Cabinet has spent it. It is in the Book of Estimates. A total of €2.1 million has been spent on legal advice. If the Book of Estimates is wrong, it would not surprise anyone in this country as it has never been right. This is probably unconstitutional, and I make a direct appeal from here to President Michael D. Higgins to refer the Bill to the Supreme Court on the following...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: I am not referring to the Minister of State. I am not accusing him. For all his faults, he is a decent man but he is wrong on this issue and is being trotted out and used. He said it was a simple Bill. It is in its fanny a simple Bill. God Almighty could hardly read it. There are things where it is all repeated in English and not in Irish here, there and everywhere else. It is the...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: I know, but I am talking about subterfuge. I will conclude very quickly. This is not a simple Bill but is a classic trick. The Minister of State is bleating about how the Irish people will be given a choice. Let them have the choice. Why is he objecting, for example, to showing the Irish people what the Government is doing? He said he is defending the Constitution. How the hell can one...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: Hear, hear.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: Hear, hear.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: I very much sympathise with the Senator Zappone. The Bill is confusing but I am glad we changed the order. Because Schedule 3 is mentioned in section 4, the Senator naturally thought she had an opportunity to discuss it. The Senator will be able to make her points when we finish discussing the Bill.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: Perfect. I oppose section 4 because it is another sneaky little measure. I am glad most Members on the Government side have withdrawn but I wonder whether we should give them another little opportunity to withdraw in order that they can go straight to the one-stop-shop to announce they will no longer draw their salaries because they have just voted to extinguish themselves. They voted in...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: Section 4 is a classic Trojan horse and a pig in a poke. Let the people see the pig because this is an attempt to hide it. Every section shall be amended in one mass sweep. Someone will push a button and it will all be gone but the people are not being shown what is being amended. I tabled an amendment which was incorrectly ruled out of order by the Cathaoirleach.

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