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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: What do they do?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: I thought that was work that had been farmed out to other Departments.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: Do not read it out again, as I do not have time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: It will be on the record and I can check. Will Mr. Fraser provide a breakdown of everyone involved in communications, including when they were employed and the salary scales appropriate to them? He can send that information to the committee at another time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: He was unsure of whether the figure was four, five, eight or ten, how many were gone and how many had been redeployed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: Give us a specific breakdown of what those people do. The term "Government communications" is very general. If Department X wants to put a good spin on something but feels it is a bit light on the communications side, can it lift the phone to the GIS and ask how the something can be turned into a Government of Ireland announcement? The perception out there is that nothing has changed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: I appreciate that, so what I want is the proof, as Mr. Fraser has not been convincing. He has told us that there were eight, six, four or five, he was not sure, he does not know and, generally speaking-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: I do not remember endorsing anything.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: It must have been buried in some document or other. I will address the President's Establishment. The audit committee is now meeting. How were its members recruited? I noticed in the accounts that the audit function for the Department of the Taoiseach is the same audit function for the President's Establishment.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: Is it the same committee?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: We have a new chair. I was watching on the monitor when Mr. Fraser stated that the committee had met several times and was going through everything in question. Was the 1938 Act specific in excluding the President's Establishment from being audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: Could we check that? Presumably, it does. If it does not, Mr. McCarthy might supply a note on why the Establishment is excluded from his obligation to audit.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: Mr. McCarthy might also supply a note on what would need to happen if the Oireachtas decided to include it. Would it require a statutory instrument, an amendment to the primary legislation or just political will, for want of a better expression?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: Probably. If Mr. McCarthy supplies a note on it, we will know for certain. No one is saying anything about misappropriation or the like and did not the last time we discussed this matter either, but it is appropriate that moneys be audited. We learned that these moneys had not been audited. How this Vote is laid out is general. There are broad headings, which probably do not provide the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: I know that, but Mr. Fraser is the closest thing to an Accounting Officer that we can get today.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: He did not, actually, with respect to him.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: Mr. Fraser brought up the President.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: I am talking about the President's Establishment. Mr. Fraser mentioned the word "President". There was an account published, which is not an audited account and which is not a detailed explanation of what the breakdown is. This is not about the current President. For the record, I voted for the President and my party campaigned for him. However, just because it is the President, do not...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: That is grand. What I am most respectfully asking Mr. Fraser is whether he can give us a breakdown, without the amounts necessarily, because it is perfectly legitimate that it might include wardrobe. Mr. Fraser might inquire from the Accounting Officer, with whom he obviously has a relationship. If it is the same audit function between one and the other, I am sure it is not rocket science...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Marc MacSharry: An audit committee and an audit are two different things.

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