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Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: But this is taxpayers' money.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: The Secretary General is saying he has an expectation. Does the Department not have an end date to enable the taxpayers to believe there is something definite here? The taxpayer will be getting back the €300 million of the loan, plus interest, by the end of September. Can the Secretary General tell members whether the capital contribution is redeemable? Does the Department envisage...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: It should be. What is the €54 million convertible loan?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: I have never seen as many flexible headings and amounts appear in accounts. The loan could be paid back by September, the other convertible loan could become something else and the €439 million and so on from the local government fund could continue beyond 2016. The Secretary General then made reference to when the business plan will be complete. What business plan?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: Has the Department a business plan?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: In respect of the €2.4 billion of taxpayers' money that is going into Irish Water, does the Department have an overall business plan?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: But does the Department have a business plan because all the money is coming from the Department? Let us be straight about this. A total of €2.5 billion is going from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government to Irish Water. Is it open-ended? Is there a blank cheque for Irish Water in respect of its set-up, because that is how I perceive it? A total of...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: The question I asked was whether the transfer across of knowledge from local authorities was considered.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: The second question was on the possibility that the taxpayer may be obliged to contribute to the upgrading of all this infrastructure at some stage because that was said at the last Committee of Public Accounts hearing.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: Will that be a declining amount from billions or will it be a declining amount from millions?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: No, I refer to the capital. This whole venture was put into place because it was to be off-balance sheet and the only way to raise money to put into the infrastructure and provision of water services. Is it the Department's plan or does it envisage that this new company will raise all the money on the markets, or is it the Secretary General's expectation that the Department will have to...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: While getting to that point, does the Secretary General think that the Department will be funding some of this infrastructure out of taxpayers' money? I am asking a straight question, to which, as Vincent Browne would say, a "Yes" or "No" answer will do.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: There will be an investment by the taxpayer.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: For a period after 2016 in the upgrading of the infrastructure-----

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: -----but that has not been quantified yet.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: If the capital programme for it is, say, €7 billion, and I have heard that figure mentioned, the taxpayer might pay half of it, €3.5 billion, or something like that.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: I know. It will decline at the rate of 50% and will then decline into nothing.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: Is there not a business plan?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: If the Secretary General was to go into a credit union or a bank and tell them he had a business plan up to 2016 and ask them for a loan, they would not give him one, yet we are giving away taxpayers' money to a huge entity that has so far gobbled up money in terms of consultants' reports and payments about which there are huge questions in terms of its efficiency. Today, as we look to 2016...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

John McGuinness: What is the national collection rate of commercial water charges by local authorities?

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