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Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: We are going off on a tangent. We can disagree on it and I can clarify it later. Mr. Daly is actually saying that all patients who qualify under the fair deal are high dependency. Am I right?

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: I see the issues and we will be raising some of those. I am just trying to clarify. Mr. Daly is clearly telling us that the homes he represents have the same level of high dependency as the public nursing homes.

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Mr. Daly should listen to my question. I want to be fair. He said - he can take it back and I can-----

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: The homes Mr. Daly represents have the same level of high dependency for residents as the public nursing homes have.

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Okay, that is very good.

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: I am fully aware of that. I looked at the Health Service Executive arguments, which claimed there was a high level of dependency for various reasons in the public nursing homes which was one of many reasons that led to higher prices. Another was that its public nursing homes function in a different way. For example, the public nursing home in Carraroe has other functions. It runs a day...

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: That is okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: National Treatment Purchase Fund (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: The last presentation we had was about dependency. Who would be in a position to answer that question about the levels of dependency?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: National Treatment Purchase Fund (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: It was in respect of the levels of dependency. That was one of the reasons the HSE gave for the higher cost for public beds and nursing homes. One was the higher level of dependency.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: National Treatment Purchase Fund (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Just on different levels of dependancy, what was said previously was that in private nursing homes as in public nursing homes the same level of high dependency exists. Indeed, everyone except for social cases that are assessed under fair deal, are all high dependency. Is that a correct statement?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: National Treatment Purchase Fund (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Absolutely. Then there is a clinical assessment. Am I wrong in understanding that there are different levels of dependency within that clinical assessment?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: National Treatment Purchase Fund (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: So different homes would have a number of residents, some with higher levels of dependency than others.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: National Treatment Purchase Fund (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Is Mr. Fitzgerald in a position to comment on private nursing homes as opposed to public ones in respect of the highest level of dependency?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: National Treatment Purchase Fund (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: On the 80-20 balance, I have asked before who has decided it. Has it happened just by default?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: National Treatment Purchase Fund (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: I saw the bed stock being reduced. I saw St. Francis's home. The Chairman is gone but he has fought a battle for Abbeyleix at the same time. In the week it was close, the HSE made an announcement that there were not enough public beds, which was particularly difficult to accept at the time. What is the proper balance? What is the policy that the HSE has been given by the Government?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: National Treatment Purchase Fund (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: That would have happened in respect of a home in Oughterard in Galway. Is Mr. Fitzgerald familiar with that?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: National Treatment Purchase Fund (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: My final question before I go back to Mr. Horan is to ask why beds remain empty in public nursing homes if there is no distinction and if each patient is assessed under fair deal. If every resident is assessed, that is income for the home whether it is public or private, is that not right?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: National Treatment Purchase Fund (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: We have a situation in Carraroe in the heart of the Gaeltacht where I have lost track of how many beds are empty - I think it is 13 - while the hospital is at crisis point. Why would that happen?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: National Treatment Purchase Fund (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Public or private.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: National Treatment Purchase Fund (14 Jun 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Only limited by geographic accessibility.

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