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Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: My experience is that a person who is recruited through an agency and who becomes a full contractual employee is different from somebody sent for a temporary period to a company. It does not make sense that temporary agency workers would be seen as employees of a company as it is the agency that is their employer. This is important.

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: No, I want to see the change made. The word "employee" here could include an individual employed on a temporary basis for one or two weeks while the legal relationship is with the agency. The situation is different if the employer sets up a contract with a person who has been recruited through an agency. However, if a person is employed in a temporary position for just one or two weeks, the...

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: I ask the Minister of State to reconsider this important matter in advance of Report Stage.

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: We should give further consideration to this matter off-site. I accept the Minister of State's comments about a person who is employed under a two-year contract. It would not be sensible to give the same rights to a person who is employed under a one-month contract. I will not press the amendment. I ask the Minister of State to re-examine this complex matter.

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: I will not press the amendment. I will discuss it with the Minister of State off-site.

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: I am not walking away from it.

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: Yes.

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: My experience suggests that there is a need for clarity in legislation about the meaning of a "trade union" and an "undertaking". This amendment has been proposed because there is a need to fill the gaps in the Bill's definition section and make matters clearer.

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: The Senator is speaking tongue in cheek.

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: One cannot make legislation for the very small number of rogue employers. In general, Senator O'Toole takes a negative approach towards employers in this House.

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: That is my observation since I came to the Seanad. I sat on the national women's committee of the Federated Workers Union of Ireland in the mid-1970s so I do not have a problem with trade unions. We must be very careful with these amendments. We do not want to intrude on existing first-class relationships between employers and employees achieved through the direct method or frighten people...

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: I totally agree with Senator O'Toole that a person should not hold an office for longer than a period of three years. However, I am totally opposed to the notion that the representative should always be elected and never appointed. It is fine for Senator O'Toole. He is in a forum where elections take place all the time but some people are not used to seeking election. In some cases people...

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: I ask the Minister of State to reflect on the matter before Report Stage.

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: Section 7 is entitled——

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: Yes, but this relates to section 7.

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: The acceptance of this amendment involves the deletion of section 7. The amendment is designed to force an employer, without good reason and consensus, into information and consultation when it would be neither appropriate nor timely. This amendment, combined with those on employee representation, would mean that a trade union representing a tiny minority of employees could force an employer...

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: With respect, we are not here just for talk and rhetoric. We are discussing the country's future.

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: I remind Senator McDowell that there are 240 companies, mostly high-tech and pharmaceutical companies, that employ more than 1,000 people. Therefore, I believe the 10% figure required to set off these discussions is dangerous and far too low.

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: It is dangerous because 10% or 100 employees is a very low number in a large company. I speak from practical experience, as do the others who support this change. It is a serious matter and the Minister should reflect seriously on it. The figure should be 15% or 250 employees. Otherwise it will give a wrong signal to large companies. When international investment grew here in the 1970s and...

Seanad: Employees (Provision of Information and Consultation) Bill 2005: Committee Stage. (12 Oct 2005)

Mary White: I support fully Senator Quinn's comments about the 250 employees. This is an important issue. I am not asking the Minister of State to make a decision on the matter today, but to state that he will give the matter further consideration and to outline his thoughts again on Report Stage.

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