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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: There is broad acceptance of the amendment proposed, but in fairness to Deputies Fleming and McDonald I should reply to the issues they raised, as it is a key issue that we must debate. That is the purpose of Committee Stage. It is a good thing. Four outstanding issues emerged from the regulatory impact statement. Members will see that the amendments I proposed, which broadly have the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: We will look at it.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: From the outset, I have had a very open approach to the Bill, because it is not my Bill. When it returns to the Seanad, I will not be taking it and it will be a matter for Senator Quinn to take forward. The Government has been really committed to trying to get this to work. However, it must not extend it so far beyond the original objective that it becomes inoperable and a much bigger...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: I cannot comment on whether they were aware. The date for this committee meeting was set, amendments were tabled by colleagues and we tabled our amendments. It is not a question of whether they could have been aware of it one way or another. When they were published they were in the public domain. I fully accept there is a very strong view on the issue. I still have an open view on it...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: Supply and install.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: If they are installed.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: That could be put into a contract. The great dilemma in this area arises as a result of the lack of contracts. That is why we are here discussing the Bill. There is nothing to stop the subcontractor as part of that overall contract putting that as a condition. That would mean that if one designs and installs the structure, it is totally operable within the context of the Bill.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: I believe the debate is changing, if we are really being honest about this. Deputy Fleming had submitted an amendment on bespoke materials. Bespoke is not similar to ready-mixed concrete, is it? I understand the concrete lobby is seeking to have this included. However, let us be honest. That is not bespoke or one-off.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: It is not the same thing.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: We need to be honest about what we are saying. Deputy McDonald reminded me about what I undertook. It is always good to read what one said about a year and a half ago. It is always good to put it on the record - she might do it herself the odd time. At the time we looked at the question of bespoke items. We have looked at this question and it is difficult. We need to make a distinction,...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: From studying this in recent years I have learned about the complete lack of construction contracts in Ireland. There is poor practice throughout the industry with regard to regulating contracts and ensuring we have enforceable contracts. One of the reasons the Bill was presented by Senator Quinn and others was that people had been burned substantially. On an all-party basis we agreed this...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: I move amendment No. 4: In page 4, subsection (1), line 33, to delete "Finance" and substitute "Public Expenditure and Reform".This amendment allocates responsibility for policy and administration of legislation to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. This is a standard provision. He is my boss.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: Deputy McDonald has one as well. It is the same issue.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: I will put on record the official reply and we can then have a discussion about it. I am addressing amendments Nos. 5, 13 and 38. While there are merits in the Deputy's proposals, they are focused on issues that are really outside the scope of this legislation. This Bill is designed to address failures to pay construction sector contractors, subcontractors and sub-subcontractors who have...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: Amendments Nos. 6, 15, 17 and 18 are grouped. I move amendment No. 6: In page 4, subsection (1), to delete lines 43 and 44 and in page 5, to delete lines 1 to 4.This is one of the main issues that was raised in the consultation process that formed part of the regulatory impact assessment. I recognise the work of Deputies Fleming and McDonald who were part of that regulatory assessment. It...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: I very much agree with what Deputy Creed said. In fairness to Senator Quinn, the whole objective of the Bill was to help the small guy to ensure he had some rights in this and that. Through adjudication, there would be a low cost, or no cost, and a straightforward way of achieving fairness. As I understand it, thresholds were initially set high because the original Bill contained financial...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: At the end of Second Stage I took the view that there should be no thresholds. If we were going as low as €10,000, why have any threshold at all? We could have made it clear for everyone. However, the Attorney General's advice was, to avoid vexatious claims, there should be some threshold limit. Given the fact that we all must take advice given on the basis of precedent and...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: Two issues arise. First, the Bill makes provision for the withdrawal of labour, although I am unsure in which section. This is important. There is a recognition of the need for a cooling down period whereby, if people take this route, they can re-examine the issues and achieve a fair resolution. Notwithstanding any adjudication procedure, every citizen has a fundamental right to take an...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: Deputy Fleming is right in saying there is a problem. I want to be up-front and admit there is an issue here largely driven by the fact that there is such competition for construction contracts because the price has come down substantially. If one speaks to the Minister for Education and Skills, he will tell one that on average, there has been a reduction of between 30% and 40% on what we...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Construction Contracts Bill 2010: Committee Stage (15 May 2013)

Brian Hayes: The major difference is that we now have standardised contracts which have made a significant difference in terms of giving certainty to public authorities engaged in this. I will be frank. There are too many people involved in public procurement who do not have the specialist knowledge of markets and sectors. One of the things we have done within procurement recently is to recruit people...

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