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Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Why is the phrase "having regard to the animal’s nature, type, species, breed" etc. not placed at the start of the section?

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: We can come back to it on Report Stage.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Does it cover domestic animals?

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: The point is that the most common domestic animal is the cat. As they say, one never owns a cat, the cat owns one.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: In respect of section 11(1) and (2), which involve having regard to the animal's nature, it is not possible to take all necessary steps to safeguard the health and welfare of the animal and to ensure it does not threaten the health and welfare of another animal without effectively locking it up. It relates to the nature of the beast. I reckon that one must either insert "reasonable" or...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: It has been included in section 11(1)(b) but not in section 11(1)(a).

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: I am referring to section 11(1)(a). That reference to having regard to the animal's nature, type, species, breed, development and environment does not qualify the requirement to safeguard the health and welfare of the animal. Cats are being killed all the time and most cats are killed out of doors. It is a fact. It is covered here. This is the law. The law is what it means. Most cats...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: I will not press the amendment but will table it on Report Stage.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: I move amendment No. 16: In page 13, subsection (1)(a), line 35, before "do," where it firstly occurs to insert "intentionally".Amendments Nos. 22 and 23 are alternatives and look very similar to me, so we will go with the Minister's better wording. I appreciate the Minister has taken it on board. In amendment No. 16 we suggest the word "intentionally" be included. Acceptance of amendments...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: It does not go on the tail.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: The Bill provides that a person shall not do anything that causes unnecessary suffering. All of the actions listed would cause unnecessary suffering.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: They cannot be transported in a manner which causes unnecessary suffering.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: That is provided for in subsection 1. A person cannot cruelly treat or beat or kick etc. because to do so would cause unnecessary suffering. I am saying that subsection 1 deals with this in an omnibus way, in that it provides that anything that causes unnecessary suffering is not permitted. This applies not only in respect of any of the actions listed but in respect of carriage or any...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: In spelling out certain cruelties, provision is made for two levels of cruelty, namely, any type of cruelty, including of a type not listed, and limited cruelty in the context of what is listed in subsection 2(b). In my view the word "anything" is undermined by the listing of specific actions, which would suggest that other types of cruelty not listed are not the same as those listed. This...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: There is a fear that such codes of practice might be very detailed law by the back door. If I understand correctly, a person can only be prosecuted under a regulation made under the law or a provision in the law without a regulation.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: When the judge considers an issue, if it is an area where there are codes of practice, the judge would have to hand down a conviction under a particular statutory instrument or law.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: In trying to measure whether the statutory instrument or law has been broken, the code of practice could be considered. A code of practice is subservient in every way to the fact there must be proof that a person is guilty under a statutory instrument or law.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Is that what is now being said in the legislation?

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: It must be proven under the law.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: If we are to go the route of a code of practice, it must be simple and practical. It should be a layman's law and understandable to people. It should be widely disseminated as nobody wants to be caught out because they do not know about something. The idea of a code of practice is that it should be generally known and agreed by the sector involved. There should be a layman's understanding...

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