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Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: How much was that for?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: What was the outcome of that?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Did the local family resource centre conduct an examination into this? Did it do its own examination?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: The total amount that was double-claimed was €44,000, which is not a huge figure in Tusla's overall budget. I am concerned about the process. This is important because it does not relate to this issue only. It could have implications for other public bodies. I am trying to establish what happened to enable us to resolve this issue. At some point, this was reported to the Standards...

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Can Ms Hanna explain to me what Tusla did when it wrote to SIPO? Specifically, in what way was it reported to SIPO?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: That is not how it transpired. There was a delay in SIPO's investigation of this matter because Tusla simply made a disclosure. There is a difference between making a disclosure and making a complaint, so SIPO did not-----

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Bear with me now. I will ask the Comptroller and Auditor General to confirm my understanding that there was some delay in SIPO examining this matter and that it was only when the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General contacted SIPO that an inspector was appointed. Was a complaint made by Tusla, or was it simply a disclosure?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Was it a complaint or was it a disclosure?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: A disclosure.

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Tusla was advised that it could not make a complaint.

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: What was Mr. McCarthy's role in this? Would he have been frustrated at this point because a disclosure rather than a complaint was made?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: It did so of its own volition and not because it had received a complaint. At that point, would the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General have had any contact with SIPO? Would it have been asking questions about whether there was an examination?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: When this first came to light and Tusla was first made aware of it, would it have dealt with it satisfactorily? Would it have appreciated that it needed to make a complaint and to inform SIPO? Did it decide that this was primarily an issue for the local organisation - the local funder - to deal with? I ask Mr. McCarthy to answer that question in his capacity as Comptroller and Auditor...

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Would the Comptroller and Auditor General's belief that there was no desire to deal with the matter be a concern to Tusla?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Could Tusla draw up a note for me in respect of the process? I think there is a valuable lesson to be learned here, particularly if these issues arise again. Maybe Ms Hanna can explain where Tusla got the advice that it should make a disclosure rather than a complaint. Perhaps public bodies need to be educated on their actual requirements. If a body simply reports something without making...

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: How much was recouped?

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