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Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Essentially he double-claimed. How did this first come to light?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: I will get to the role of the Comptroller and Auditor General in a moment.

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: I am curious to ascertain what Ms Hanna means by a "valid claim". Maybe she will talk me through how an individual would claim.

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: How would that work in practice? Is there a form to be filled in?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Okay. I ask Ms Hanna to talk me through that process.

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: This is essentially a travel and subsistence form.

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Okay. What else would be on that form?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Would there be anything else on that form?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Is Ms Hanna aware of anything else that might be on the form?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Okay. I imagine it would be important for the person submitting the form to have to declare that he or she was not claiming for the same expenses from any other organisation. Maybe that is not on the form. Would that be on the form? Is it something that would have to be signed for?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: I will come to Mr. McCarthy in a second. Is Ms Hanna saying there is no such requirement as part of the-----

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: I am talking in real time. When this individual filled in the forms in respect of the expenses that were essentially double-claimed over a five-year period, as part of that would he or she have had to sign a declaration that the expenses were not claimed elsewhere?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Hughes is saying "No". Ms Hanna is saying "No".

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Can Mr. McCarthy answer this question?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Obviously, that is different from what we have heard previously. There was a clear requirement. As part of the declaration that would be made, the organisation would be informed by the claimant that he or she was not claiming expenses elsewhere. The claimant would tell the organisation that it was the only place he or she was claiming expenses from. That did not turn out to be the case....

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: How did Mr. McCarthy come across this issue?

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Tusla - Financial Statements 2016 (19 Oct 2017)

David Cullinane: How did the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General establish that there was an issue with a double claim? Was this for 2012 initially?

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