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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: It is, but Deputy Keaveney has learned from the masters.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Chairman, I propose that we proceed in a more structured way. It makes little sense to begin by discussing an individual saving of €800,000, €200,000 or whatever - that is like focusing on €1 within a household budget. We need to look at the big picture in a structured way. I propose, through the Chair, that we lay out a programme of work under which we would look...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: What is the mean of the total cut across all Departments and what is the percentage for the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: I am not asking about single farm payments.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Of course we take out the single farm payment, which comes directly from Europe. The Minister is merely the postman when it comes to that scheme.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: It is not part of the Department's Vote.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Chairman, I propose that we adjourn the meeting. A vote has been called in the Dáil and the Minister must leave at noon. I further propose that we make a submission to you outlining the documentation we require to give these Estimates proper consideration, with the discussion to recommence at a future date.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Perhaps the Minister can explain this because it is relevant to this question. He has said that the DAS savings will be €15 million less than anticipated. Does that mean he will have to hold back €15 million of DAS payments from this year into next year?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: How much does AEOS come to?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: How much is the Department budgeting for AEOS 3?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: The Minister claimed he will reduce the disadvantaged areas scheme, DAS, from €105 million to €90 million with no policy change.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: It appears to me that the Minister is being optimistic. There have been some crazy refusals. I had three cases last weekend of elderly farmers who had applied for derogations on medical grounds but were refused. The Minister will find these kinds of cases will win on appeal. To cut to the chase, the Department gets a month-by-month expenditure list against profile and knows its expected...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Every month the Minister gets expenditure on every item to date and the profile.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: At the bottom there could be a commentary on likely overruns and underruns. We could request all of this information under freedom of information. However, it would be handier if we were just given it. I would like to get a breakdown of the various grades of staff in the Department and agencies under its aegis. For example, in the case of Teagasc I want to know how many staff are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: What I am suggesting is very simple. Data must be available somewhere because the country is divided into three regions under the scheme, namely, mountainous areas, severely disadvantaged areas and less favoured areas. Three different rates are being paid. Somebody must have calculated those rates.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: We are not debating CAP reform; we are discussing the budget for 2013. Historical data are available and, therefore, I am asking about the three categories as before, with three relative rates of pay, and the need to investigate whether those rates reflect the overall quality of the land on which they are based. We are entitled to that information and if I cannot get it this way I will get...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: That was a constructive change and I agree with it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Few around this table would not like to think we have bled general administration for all that can be taken. That does not affect the people we are trying to help, which are farmers. We first need to have a detailed discussion on how much can be taken out of the administrative budget. That is why I want to differentiate between staff in research and those in administration and so on. My...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: These are the arguments that happen at Cabinet.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Public Expenditure Allocation 2013: Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (25 Oct 2012)

Éamon Ó Cuív: The Chairman's suggestion is useful, but if we are to engage in this we need the same information the Minister is going through daily in his Department, because without that information we will be unable to make a realistic input. Everything is predicated on no policy change. We need the information we requested, including what has happened so far this year, what is the likely outturn,...