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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: We actually had them here last week talking about that part of their role.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: While I am next on the roster, I will allow Senator Craughwell, who is under some time pressure, to go ahead of me. Senator Craughwell may go ahead, conscious of the fact that we may have to go and vote in the middle of all of this.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: I am going to start my questioning now but I am conscious that, as there is an vote upcoming in the Seanad, we may need to suspend for a short while. I will start anyway. First, I thank the witnesses for being here. This is an important and timely meeting. There is quite a bit of jargon which the witnesses are all very familiar with. I will try to get familiar with it but not all of it...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: Okay, so it is kind of the border of an existence or whatever. Clearly it is going to be the bit that is most vulnerable because it is the bit at the edge. Is it fair to say that Russian aggression in terms of cybersecurity is at a level never seen before?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: Not everybody is as much into this as Dr. Browne is. There are people watching the broadcast of these proceedings. I ask him to explain what hacktivism is. These are anarchist types or something who are-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: We will suspend the sitting for a vote in the Seanad. Once the vote is over, we will come straight back.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: Apologies for that slight delay. In his opening statement, Dr. Browne stated that the NCSC is now much more proactive than it was originally, when it was more reacting to what was fed in to it. Without giving away the game to all of these hacker-type people, what is it doing now that was not being done before?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: When Dr. Browne says neighbours and friends does he mean other countries and cybersecurity agencies in other countries?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: Should the NCSC have that means?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: Is the NCSC getting those powers?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: With every answer I am probably thinking of ten more questions. I am conscious I do not have all day and that, equally, the witnesses cannot tell us everything. From a consumer perspective, what can any or all of us do in our daily lives? We have laptops and phones and I am sure some people have game stations and various gaming devices that are linked to the Internet. Maybe people have...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: I thought it was an obvious question for us all.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: These are attacks on devices such as modems.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: I could probably go on for another half an hour but I will not. Does Deputy Farrell wish to come in at this point? He is on mute and could be on another meeting. I will bring Deputy Kenny back in.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: I thank Deputy Kenny and call Deputy Farrell.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: I thank Deputy Farrell. Just briefly in terms of the global industry, there are certain countries from which more of the cyber threats seems to be coming. Can you tell me where they are mostly coming from or-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: Yes and equally, does the NCSC believe them to be state-backed or do they happen to be in these particular countries without necessarily being state-backed?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: We knew the origin of the HSE attack but we have never said the state was directly responsible for it, which is a diplomatic distinction. I obviously will not be doing that now. It is very safe to say that the international assessments are that the majority of offensive cyber actions can be associated with groups in four countries, namely, Russia, China, Iran and North Korea, DPRK. That...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre: Discussion (29 May 2024)

Gerry Horkan: Dr. Browne might circulate that to us or maybe send it to the secretariat so we can have access to it without having to Google all over the place. I know Deputy Farrell made a reference to it as well, but in terms of the staffing levels, it was 25 not that long ago and it is at 75 now. Where does Dr. Browne anticipate being in the medium term? It is a moveable feast, I take that point, and...

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