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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Yes, that is right.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The Department has oversight of the special liquidator.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: It had an oversight function in regard to IBRC before that. Documents I received relating to that period indicate that several very large transactions were poorly executed. The Department did not cover itself in glory in respect of its supervision in that regard. Mr. Hynds can understand why consideration might have been given to ensuring some added protection, even for the Department....

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The Department's performance in its supervisory role prior to that could not be described as exemplary.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: That was stated in documents prepared by the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I understand that and appreciate that people may have retired or moved on but Mr. Carville is representing the Department and I must, therefore, ask him these questions because I cannot ask those who were responsible at the time. If documents state several large transactions were poorly executed and the Department had a supervisory role at the time, one would think there would be a double...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I want to move on to practical matters. According to Mr. Carville's opening statement, "it is expected a second interim dividend of €280 million will be received in the next few weeks following the announcement last week of a further 25% payment to admitted unsecured creditors of IBRC". Is that all unsecured creditors? How many or which creditors were admitted and what was the basis...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Mr. Carville is saying it will go beyond 25%. Is there a monetary value in that regard?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: What is the monetary value in that regard?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I still have a very serious problem with unsecured creditors being paid by a bank that was fully bailed out and was not even a high street bank.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: It would be useful to receive a table. Things are being conflated.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: A couple of pages with high-level information would be helpful.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The figure for subordinated debt comes in almost at the tail end. Is anything likely to be paid on it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I find it objectionable that unsecured or subordinated debt would be repaid. They have been accelerating the sale of the floating rate bonds and are ahead of schedule because of interest rates and the NTMA. We never had the game changer which was related to the promissory notes. Have we fully accepted this and has there been any challenge to it? Is there any follow-up to the commitments...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I can accept that things have changed with AIB and Bank of Ireland, in particular, but IBRC and Irish Nationwide Building Society were a different proposition. Most of us understood the promissory notes represented money that was being extinguished. That was the word used when some of us met the Governor of the Central Bank. I am reminded that Ashoka Mody, one of the people involved on the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: With others, I met Mr. Philip Lane and addressed this issue with him. When we asked him if it would be impossible to address the issue, he said it would be difficult but that it could happen at a political level. Would Mr. Dorgan agree?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I am asking about this aspect of retrospective recapitalisation, with specific reference to Anglo Irish bank.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: It is a political and a policy matter, rather than one for the Department of Finance.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I will come back with a couple of other matters.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Not on this side.

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