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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: The question was asked of how far the Government will go to defend successive Governments' policies.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: We will go as far as it takes to vindicate the position. We believe we have both the legal right and authority to do exactly what we have been doing since the first PSC was issued in 2011. It is probably standard practice for most Departments to have in-house legal advisers. We have two and both are barristers who have been seconded from the Attorney General's office. They reside in the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: Before I answer the specific questions, the Deputy made a statement that some people believe that this is a national identity card introduction by the back door.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: Many people have sought under freedom of information, FOI, legislation all of the documentation regarding meetings of interdepartmental groups right back as far as 1996. At no stage was there ever any indication or action arising from the thought process that there would be any legislation passed or anything to give anybody the impression that this was a national identity card by the side...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: I do not think so. I would need to check that with the Minister.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: I am not 100% sure. I would have to check with the relevant Minister. It is the relevant Minister's responsibility, not mine, to introduce his or her own schemes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: To be honest, there has been some criticism as to why it took us as long to respond to the original findings on 15 August. There was some flurry of activity around 15 August and I think people expected us to either comply within two days or to respond within a number of days. The issues here are complex and the legislation has been amended many times. The Chairman will be aware that with...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: I can arrange an appointment for the Deputy if she would like.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: Of course.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: Of course the Deputy can, and she always could. It is not true that we mandated that people had to go down a single tunnel.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: I do not know whether the Senator is aware that some challenges were made to the Ombudsman's office last year regarding decisions made on appeal for a variety of scheme applicants. The Ombudsman's office overruled decisions that had been made on appeal by our deciding officers because we did not have the relevant supporting documentation for those decisions. We were instructed that if we...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: -----the Data Protection Commissioner had was not that we were retaining the data, but that we were not making a business case for the indefinite retention of the data. We do not indefinitely retain data; we retain them for as long as a recipient is doing business with our Department. That may be a number of years or sometimes longer, but it entirely depends on the recipient's relationship...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: It is not solely for the purposes of the Ombudsman.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: In order that we can use it as validation for any query brought up in the future.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: With respect, the reason neither of those findings have been implemented is that we do not agree with them. We believe we have complied with all our transparency obligations, and that we have the legal ability to retain data because they are required by us. That has been borne out by appeals to the Ombudsman's office which were overruled because we did not have supporting documentation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: That is not what the Data Protection Commission is referring to.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: The difficulty I have with answering that question is that the data referenced by the Senator have not been questioned by the DPC. The data under question by the DPC are the proof of address. When citizens come in-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: The information to which the Data Protection Commission is specifically referring is the proof of address of people making applications, which is held on record in our Department. If someone comes to an interview for a PSC SAFE 2 authentication process with an ESB bill that states that he or she lives on No. 123, Road A, Rathfarnham, a copy of that ESB bill is kept on our records. That is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: I do not know what the Senator is referring to.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Public Services Card: Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (21 Nov 2019)

Regina Doherty: I ask the Senator to repeat her query.

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