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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: How much is the overall budget?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: There is no budget available for enforcement but Mr. Walsh feels the Minister has indicated he may have one.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Will Mr. Walsh inform the committee what proportion of money will be allocated to each local authority, and on what basis, for the enforcement of this new measure, which is going to give us an additional notional 2,000 places?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: That is what I just did. That is fine. In terms of process trumping delivery, and we know there was the one-stage process and the four-stage process, I put it to the Secretary General that the sum of the parts within the Department do not add up to the overall mission. Let us use Sligo as an example. On the one hand, it does not have the money to have appropriate staff to meet the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Therefore, Sligo has the optimum number of staff. It should be able to roll out a scheme as quickly as Fingal, which has €100 million on deposit at any given time. Sligo should be doing the same.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I have limited time, so I do not have time to go through a whole scheme.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: At what point in the process is it given that money?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I will use Sligo as an example because I am from Sligo. If Sligo local authority, Fingal or whichever local authority rings and says it has an idea for a scheme, that it is down €500,000 and there are 30 beds, is that how that works?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: It is a bit of a chicken and egg situation because if it does not have the people, it cannot do it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Absolutely, but we cannot be busy fools either thinking that there is money available. Live, horse, and get grass. The Department is saying that as soon as a local authority has a scheme that demands the level of support it is in a position to give, it will give it the money, but until then it is getting nothing. We know that we have all these schemes available but because it is such a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I have the lovely chart before me. At what stage do we get the €500,000 on this?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: When is it moving on? This is the beginning. When do we get the €500,000? When is the money divvied up to begin this process? This is a lovely colourful chart. I am at site identification, so how much do I get at that stage?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: That does not mean anything to me. At what point can I get €500,000?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Okay. What is the first increment? Is it €5,000, €10,000 or €50,000?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: What if it does not have an in-house design team?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: What if has none? What if Paul Lemass has shaved the budget to the nth degree and it does not have the staff? What does it do then?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: What is not appropriate?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Why does Mr. McCarthy not think it is appropriate? The person is an assistant secretary in the Department and is answerable to this committee, as is Mr. McCarthy. What is the problem?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I am not levelling any charge at all. I am asking Mr. McCarthy if, as I know, and I have been in meetings with him that show this, a particular local authority is to the pin of its collar to survive and does not have an in-house design team, what is it to do? It is a perfectly legitimate question. We cannot be precious in here.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Okay, but at what point does it come in? At what point does that happen? If I lift the phone to a Secretary General and say that I am a county manager but we have a very tight budget, that we cannot survive on our rates base and depend on the Local Government Fund, that we have a great idea for a 30 bed scheme but I need €100,000 to get things moving, at what point can I get it or is...

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