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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Is there a relationship between the Department and various boards of the ETBs? Is there a route for members on an ETB board to express their dissatisfaction to the Department?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I am aware of very significant frustration among some board members on this particular board where they feel frustrated about being able to do their job properly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Let me revert to the 2010 report of the Comptroller and Auditor General which states the State injected €20 million into the VEC following the non-completion of the sale of property which was intended to fund the transaction. Was that property subsequently sold and what is the situation in that regard?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I will leave it at that.

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I will be brief. I thank the witnesses for being here today. The City of Dublin ETB assumed responsibility for the SUSI grant system in 2012. What staff complement was provided to it in that regard, including on the financial side?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Prior to that there was a large number of VECs processing third level grant applications, including the City of Dublin VEC. What happened to the staff who carried out that work? Were they transferred to the SUSI unit?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: In most cases, they would have been redeployed during peak times in terms of the grants.

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Was staff time at Kilkenny and Carlow ETB freed up as a consequence of the ETBs workload being reduced following the centralisation of the grants system?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Am I correct then that the moratorium would have had a lower impact on Kilkenny and Carlow ETB by virtue of the fact that there was staff time freed up?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: In regard to the risk register of the City of Dublin ETB, what are the issues that were primarily identified as needing to be addressed on the financial as opposed to the education side?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Are circulars from the Department and procurement issues matters for the risk register?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I would like to raise a final matter which, while a separate matter, is linked to procurement. We sometimes hear from suppliers that large organisations are favoured in terms of procurement, particularly in the supply of publications and so on. In France, there is a very low level of procurement outside of the State. The same applies in Germany yet here the reverse is the case. In terms...

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I am not suggesting for a minute that the ETB would not adhere to the procurement guidelines. The reason I asked the question was to find out if there are lessons we could learn from the direct experience. I have no further questions.

Public Accounts Committee: Tipperary Education and Training Board and Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I would prefer we stayed in public session.

Public Accounts Committee: Tipperary Education and Training Board and Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I would first like to ask Mr. McCarthy how unusual it is to issue a formal audit query. He obviously has a lot of engagement with the entities he audits, but how unusual is it to take that step?

Public Accounts Committee: Tipperary Education and Training Board and Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: When the Comptroller and Auditor General had the engagement with, in this case, the KWETB, was it with the executive or with the board? Who was it with? What happens there?

Public Accounts Committee: Tipperary Education and Training Board and Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I will return to that particular point in a few minutes. I would like to ask Mr. Ó Foghlú about the formal inquiry that has been initiated in the Department. Is such a formal inquiry unusual? How often have such inquiries been initiated in the past five years?

Public Accounts Committee: Tipperary Education and Training Board and Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: It is unusual. Regarding the Comptroller and Auditor General, has that happened? Is that unusual as well?

Public Accounts Committee: Tipperary Education and Training Board and Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The terms of reference were not cut and pasted. They were very deliberate.

Public Accounts Committee: Tipperary Education and Training Board and Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I would like to ask Mr. Ruttle about the board and the issue of governance, and about the relationship between the board and the executive. Does the same legal adviser work with both?

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