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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: These rules, as with any others, have to be kept under review. We have to see if they fit the needs of an economy at any point in time, in this case the European economy. This could be an area in which we have different views but I contend that many of the objectives contained in the fiscal rules are appropriate and necessary for our economy. To have a deficit below 3% and a debt as a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: They need to be kept under review. The needs of the Irish economy, in particular with regard to demographics and Brexit, need to be recognised in the fiscal rules in the future. The objectives of the fiscal rules make sense.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: It means working with all member states. When I look at, for example, the stance the United Kingdom has taken on fisheries, which the Deputy brought up, I would look to make changes in a different way. Our demographics alone mean capital expenditure in Ireland needs to be treated in a different way. I also do not want to overstate the agreement. The objectives of the fiscal rules on...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: Assuming the agreement of the Business Committee, I am hoping to do it next week. Why are we doing it next week? I have many colleagues who are now in new roles. They are entitled to a period of time to understand the needs of their Departments and to understand some of the things we need to manage and to have a fuller discussion about it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: It depends on the day on which the summer economic statement is confirmed in the Oireachtas. I am hoping we will get it on Thursday or Friday. Subject to the Cabinet agreeing to it, I will publish it as early in the week as I can.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: No. I am saying the Oireachtas needs to determine when it is on and I am hoping it will either be next Thursday or Friday.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I want to make it available to the Oireachtas in advance of the debate.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: We will have a Cabinet discussion on it this afternoon. At this point in time, I cannot say. As I have said on a number of occasions recently, our estimate on the so-called fiscal space for next year is broadly unchanged from a number of months ago. It is a matter that can change at any point during the year. We will be having an assessment of this matter during the summer and I will be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I disagree with the Deputy on a number of points. Due to the openness of our economy and the number of moving parts within it, any form of a change can have an effect on resources that are available next year. An increase from €5 to €6, for the sake of argument, is not a big percentage change but can have quite an effect on the discussions that I have with colleagues. I want...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: The first time in which the new approach was tested, at least in this year, was in Spain rather than Italy. At that point, a merger took place between two very significant banks which did not involve the use of Spanish taxpayers' money. That is Banco Popular. The Deputy is correct to say the Italian-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: Yes

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: No, there were enough in junior bondholders.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: The point I am making about the situation in Spain is that a significant retail bank which was managed under the single supervisory mechanism was involved in a merger and the management of risk happened without the contagion effect within the Spanish or European economy that was the norm a number of years ago. The Deputy is correct when he says Italian taxpayers' money was used in dealing...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I take a different view. If what happened recently in Spain and Italy had had happened in the eurozone a number of years ago, particularly during and in the aftermath of the crisis, we would be dealing with how banks elsewhere in the eurozone were affected, but we are not dealing with such issues. The fact that this has not happened - we have seen the resolution of two national banking...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: The Government and its predecessor have overseen an improvement in the value of non-performing loans. The rate of change has been extraordinary by European standards. The value of non-performing loans decreased by approximately €10 billion in 2016 alone. A reduction of €10 billion was achieved in a single year. The rate of improvement, by comparison with where we were at the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: No, I am not.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: No. I would never advocate "more of the same" just for the sake of it. We will continue our policies if they work. The evidence on the progress we have made in dealing with non-performing loans is very positive. We want to keep at it. I will give the Senator a concrete example. The Central Bank has noted that since the peak in June 2013, approximately 120,000 private mortgages have been...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I expect so, particularly for businesses, but it will vary on a business by business basis. Businesses have reached agreements with banks that have reduced the nominal value of debts, agreed to the making of repayments over longer periods of time and to the repayment of lower levels of debt in response for being treated better in other ways. All of this will vary, depending on the bank and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: ECOFIN Meeting: Minister for Finance (6 Jul 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I have just provided figures which show that there has been a very significant reduction the value of in non-performing loans. The rate of reduction is particularly fast by European standards. I did not get a chance to answer the Senator's final question about private equity firms because I was dealing with her point about where we were with mortgages. At the end of June 2016, private...

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