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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: Can Mr. Moran tell me who was in charge of the section that he took over?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: I know what Mr. Moran took over. Can he tell me who was in charge of the section?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: No. I am asking Mr. Moran to name the official that was in charge of that section in the previous Department because he is telling me that they came over into his Department and, if that is not correct, please tell me that.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: What staff came over under the Department of Agriculture when the change was made?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: It was all of the same staff in all of these mixes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: What would they have been doing?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: Is Mr. Beamish the only common denominator between the past and the present?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: Nobody who was making the decision around this took any account of the corporate knowledge that was involved here because it was spread over various officials and two different Departments.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: I understand that. What I am trying to get at is the people who worked within this system, regardless of the Department, had corporate knowledge of what was going on and surely they passed that on to somebody. When they leave, do they just leave with that corporate knowledge with nobody having a record of it?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: I will leave at that. The Comptroller and Auditor General's office was auditing this mess prior to 2007.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: What did Mr. Harkness discover prior to 2007? The Comptroller and Auditor General referred in the annual report to delays in the process in 2004. According to Mr. Moran and Dr. Beamish, these are legacy issues. When did the Comptroller and Auditor General's office identify the problems prior to 2007? The property sale was going on for 21 years. Surely that would have raised a red flag...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: Where in the various accounts prior to 2007 can I see where the Comptroller and Auditor General flagged that?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: Did the Comptroller and Auditor General's office see this mess unfolding from 1999? Did this raise a red flag for the office? Did staff have harsh words for the previous Department that had charge of the mess?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: How was that the case when all this was going on?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: From 2007 poor Mr. Moran had an awful mess on his plate but it did not drop out of the sky. The mess was created prior to 2007. How was that uncovered? In 2006, the centres were given a clear audit. We know what happened in 2004 when there was a reference to delays while debt was flagged in 1999. Are the other reports clear audits, with the exception of 1999 and 2004? Mr. Harkness can...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: Were they as serious as those with which we are dealing today?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: What does Mr. Kelly think of this? The overarching accounts narrative is the Comptroller and Auditor General flagging different issues, perhaps not as loudly as they should have been flagged, in that section. What was Mr. Kelly doing in this regard?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: We are talking about 2007 onwards but Mr. Kelly's Department was only told about this on 26 March this year.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: Is there evidence in the Department or in the Department of Finance prior to Mr. Kelly's Department being established that something was seriously wrong with these harbours?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report 82 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Financial Management and Reporting for Fishery Harbour Centres (16 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: For the Department to be happy about this, it would have relied on the Comptroller and Auditor General's report, which flagged a few issues here and there in the years prior to 2007 and on the internal audits of the Departments that had responsibility for the harbour centres. The Department was not told anything about this.

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