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Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: I understand that, but when Mr. McCarthy says there was over-capacity, does he mean that there were buildings or facilities provided for child care services that were empty?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: The figure of €75 million is spread across the country.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: It was €75 million in the period 2006 to 2010. What happened after 2010?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: However, the facilities are still in place. Are they still under-used?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: We must ask representatives of Pobal to come before us to discuss the matter. A sum of €75 million, as Deputy Paul J. Connaughton said, is sizeable in comparison to the figure of €124,598 and it is one about which we should at least know or investigate

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: It is a matter we can discuss with Pobal. Of the €75 million invested in these various facilities, most are underused. It will be interesting to see how the figures compare today to reflect on the figure of €75 million and on the process. Once the application is made to the Department, we must consider who carried out analysis to determine whether a facility for 30 children...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: Perhaps we can have a copy of it. Perhaps the clerk can make arrangements for Pobal to come before the committee to provide an update. I will return to the sale of Arramara Teoranta. It was a State business owned by the taxpayer. There was a process with the consultants to determine the purchaser at the end. How much money was spent on consultants? What are the costs of the process?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: That is a figure Mr. Breathnach should have. Presumably Údarás na Gaeltachta tendered for it and there was a tender process. The outcome was that one single company, RSM FGS, and Mr. Breathnach thinks the cost was €20,000. Perhaps he can revert to us with the details of the tendering process and the final cost. Mr. Breathnach says it was not a sale but the transaction...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: It is a 100% transaction of an Irish State asset to a private company. The only way Údarás na Gaeltachta would come back into the game is if the company does not invest to the extent set out in the sale of the company.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: And the State would get back 40%.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: Theoretically, the State could get 40% of nothing in five years' time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: It is a possibility.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: As someone representing the taxpayer, can Mr. Mac Eochaidh tell me how much Údarás na Gaeltachta received for the company? It will show in the accounts anyway.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: When Mr. Mac Eochaidh has to account for the period, will the amount received for the transaction not appear in the accounts?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: That is our job because we want to know what Údarás na Gaeltachta got for that company so that we can determine, on behalf of the taxpayer, whether we believe it is value for money. How can I, another member or the Comptroller and Auditor General do our jobs unless we get this figure? Is there a confidentiality agreement in place that covers the matter?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: Who is Mr. Mac Eochaidh accountable to?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: Who is the board accountable to?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: And who is the Minister accountable to?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: This is the Oireachtas Committee of Public Accounts. Mr. Mac Eochaidh did this deal on behalf of the taxpayer, on behalf of his company and on behalf of the Minister. He says it is not a sale but it is a sale and we should be told about it. Mr. Mac Eochaidh makes the point that there is a legal difficulty so I am not putting him on the spot. If the figure will appear in the 2014 accounts,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2013 Annual Accounts of Údarás na Gaeltachta
(9 Oct 2014)

John McGuinness: Údarás na Gaeltachta has a list of other assets it sold. It is only fair that we know what it sold the assets for. There is a list of assets, so many of them were disposed and this is how much was received for each. It is reasonable that we request that. It is transparency in respect of the taxpayer having some comfort that the deal was done with a transparent process involving...

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