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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: No. The Commissioner or her office should have done it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: The Commissioner has the responsibility to make sure it is done. Whoever does it is irrelevant. The Commissioner is the Accounting Officer. What she did-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I am just getting to an important point.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: We have already heard from the Comptroller and Auditor General that ultimate responsibility rests with the Accounting Officer. He or she needs to make sure the work is done. I want to refer to a letter the Commissioner did send to Mr. McCarthy, which he has furnished to the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: The letter is dated 31 July 2015. Was this before or after the Commissioner was made aware of irregularities at the Garda College?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Will Mr. McCarthy clarify if it is a letter of representation or a letter of understanding?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: What is a letter of representation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I will read it. The Commissioner says thatI confirm to the best of my knowledge and belief, and having made appropriate enquiries of my officials of An Garda Síochána, the following representations, which are given to you in connection with your audit of the Appropriation Account for Vote 20 ... for the year ended ... I am satisfied that the expenditure and receipts disclosed in...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: No, sorry, that is not the case. I asked the Commissioner earlier and she was very clear with this committee that she first became aware of irregularities in the Garda College in July 2015. She was briefed on the issues, she had a meeting with Mr. Barrett, and, I take it, others also, but she was most certainly aware of the issues involved and that these issues were historical, going back...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: With respect, the Commissioner is counting down the clock.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: With respect, the Commissioner is.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I make that charge because I believe it to be the case. I want to put a question to Mr. McCarthy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Given that the Commissioner would have been at least aware of irregularities, is Mr. McCarthy satisfied the letter he received, dated 31 July 2015, where the Commissioner said she had disclosed all instances of loss fraud or irregularity is accurate?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: The Comptroller and Auditor General did say in the past he would have expected to have been informed, for example, of issues such as the establishment of a steering group or when there are issues of potential irregularities.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: What the Comptroller and Auditor General had said is that from 2008 onwards, his office should have been informed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: In all of the material that was disclosed to this committee, there was a letter from Mr. Barrett to the CAO. It was, in fact, a very extensive presentation. We are led to believe that it was the basis upon which the Comptroller and Auditor General was briefed. It says in the letter that there was potential that appropriation accounts had been compromised and signed off on by commissioners.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: How is it that we have a document from the head of human resources which talks about accounts being potentially compromised and then a letter sent by the Commissioner to Mr. McCarthy at the end of July in which she stated that there was no problem and that everything was okay. When she was briefed, she was aware of the irregularities. A steering group had been established. The head of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: That is not good enough, with respect. I have to insist on a decent-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Can I add an important point to that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: It is very important. Mr. Dunne was informed by Mr. Barrett that accounts were potentially compromised and then chaired a meeting of a steering group at which he said that he did not believe that external players should be informed. Is the Commissioner telling us today that Mr. Barrett gave an extensive report and briefing to the chief accounting officer, CAO, Mr. Dunne, talking about the...

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