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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Having said that, it is easier to audit something when it is cash. In terms of the value of the assets, whether lands or buildings, if continual valuations have not been carried out then how can one conduct an audit? Could some of it be used, if there is something from 20 years ago? I am aware of a piece of land that was transferred from a Department on which a Garda station was built. I...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Did we get a response from the Department of Education and Skills on JobPath? We were to write last week or the week before.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I agree we should afford Mr. Daly the opportunity to appear before the committee as soon as that is possible for him. I wish to return to one paragraph of his letter, which the Chairman read out as follows:It is also important that I emphasise that all information connected with the matters to which you have referred, and aspects of which have been the subject of certain recent media...

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Our time is very tight so I will ask some quick questions. There was a slight deviation in what Mr. Quinn said from what is written on page 2 of the short version of the second report, which states that HIQA had received correspondence from a private nursing home provider. Speaking before us here today, Mr. Quinn said that he had made some of the correspondence available. According to the...

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The use of word "some" is correct then.

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: In his opening statement, Mr. McEnery said that he presented his credentials to the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health. These procedures are not always followed to the letter. Sometimes people are appointed and then go before the committee. Sometimes they go before the committee and are then appointed. Can Mr. McEnery recall which was true in his case?

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Was it after that that Mr. McEnery was appointed by the Minister?

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The matter was moot when it was brought before the committee because the appointment had already been made.

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I just wanted to establish that. Based on recent figures, a significantly growing number of nursing home beds are provided by the private sector. We heavily rely, then, on regulation and on the need for that regulation to be independent. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: There needs to be a competitive tension there to make sure matters like value for money are achieved. Does Mr. McEnery accept that?

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: HIQA has a role in setting standards. Some of those standards cost money: residents getting individual rooms, for example, as opposed to two, three or four sharing a room. By virtue of driving up standards then, HIQA also has a role then in actually driving up costs. Does Mr. McEnery accept that is the case?

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: HIQA does have a financial role then.

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: In his professional capacity, however, Mr. McEnery must take this into consideration when he is advising nursing home providers on the matter of increased costs into the future.

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: He has also indicated that the amount of money available is limited because budgets were cut a few years ago, so that is something he would have taken into consideration. In the event of Mr. McEnery going along to the conference in question here, or to the meeting or session or whatever it was, would it be fair to say that people at that event might feel that they had somebody there with an...

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Does the Department of Health believe that there is either a conflict of interest or a perception of such a conflict? Does the Department have concerns about this issue? Has it been discussed with the Minister? What is the situation?

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Did Mr. Keating have an engagement with the Minister prior to coming to this meeting?

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: What was the instruction given? Was it to be a listening brief or was Mr. Keating to respond to anything? Was any advice given to him?

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Mr. Keating might as well be sitting watching this on television if that is the case. He has no role here. He cannot tell us if the Department has a view on some very serious matters of public concern that have ended up in the newspapers. Conflicts of interest arise all the time and one has to find ways of resolving them but sometimes they cannot be resolved. If, for example, somebody is...

Public Accounts Committee: HIQA: Governance and Management of Conflict of Interest Issues (19 Oct 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Mr. Keating has obviously gone to the school for civil servants. He is saying nothing. Let us just leave it there because that is what I am hearing. I wish to ask Mr. McEnery about Chinese walls. I have been hearing such walls a great deal in recent years. Does he see this as something that falls within that category, namely, that he has Chinese walls himself in respect of this issue?

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