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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: I congratulate you, Chairman, on your recent appointment as Chairman of this committee. I and the officials in the Office of Public Works had a very good working relationship with your predecessor, and we look forward to having the same relationship with you and other members of the committee when we appear before the committee. I wish you every success in the time ahead, Chairman. I am...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: Let me help the Deputy. If what he states is true and his figures are correct, he is right in pointing to an appalling vista. Deputy Fleming's figures are wrong and this arises from a fundamental misunderstanding as to the what the figures represent. When he read out the figures on capital for 2008, the Deputy made the assumption that this was money that was spent in the Office of Public...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: The great majority of that capital works was contracted out. To extrapolate to a unitary cost where one can divide the capital budget by the number of people in the office is what may be described as "Voodoo economics".

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: Does the Deputy accept his assumption is wrong?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: That is a misunderstanding of the work.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: I hope to bring it under €100 million in 2015.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: Once again Chairman, this is a misunderstanding. The 320,00 staff figures to which my good friend, Deputy Fleming referred, are the totality of numbers in the public sector. We only pay the rent bill for the civil servants.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: It all depends on when one takes a lease. One may have taken a lease on a property for ten or 20 years, and that still stands irrespective of the state of the economy. I have figures that show the actual average cost of what we have negotiated against the market price. Let me illustrate this point. The average cost per square metre that we have negotiated is €409. The market...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: I have no difficulty providing that information to the Deputy.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: I do. The OPW uses approximately 2,200 properties. It owns 60% of them and leases 40% of them, roughly speaking. Obviously, the owned estate is the great asset we have. We are engaged in intensive negotiations regarding the 40% of properties that are leased. We have absolutely no difficulty providing further information to the Deputy and the committee.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: I thank the Deputy.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: It is the unitary charge for the national convention centre.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: In fairness to my predecessor, reductions were made before the election. The collapse happened in 2008.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: It is 1.4%, or €6.5 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: Is the Deputy asking about what has been lost on the capital side?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: Does the Deputy want a three month advance window?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: I thank Deputy Donnelly for his kind remarks about my colleagues in the OPW. I can state bluntly that the radical reductions occurred in recent years. The organisation is at its lowest point in terms of numbers for a very long time. People are having to do things differently. I will give an example. The OPW provides architectural help and support to the Department of Education and Skills...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: In effect, the problem is that our organisation does much work for other Departments at an agency level. Those Departments could take a decision not to advance a project in which our architects and surveyors would be involved. Those decisions would rest within the other Departments as we do a good deal of work for those Departments. The key area of genuine risk would be if we were to stop...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: I thank the Deputy for his remarks. The whole question of property management is a key part of the public sector reform programme, about which the Minister, Deputy Brendan Howlin, has spoken to this committee and the Committee of Public Accounts. We will be in a much better space when we get the memo through, which will help this organisation to move people around, with agreement, but in a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: 2013 Allocations for Public Expenditure - Office of Public Works: Discussion with Minister of State (17 Oct 2012)

Brian Hayes: Sorry, it is HR, payroll, pensions and banking; the first four areas of shared service. The office of the future is the open plan office as one would see in any private sector entity. To do that, new buildings are needed and we need to move away from the obsession that some people have with cellular offices. Including Deputies, it might be a good idea if we all worked in a shared environment.

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