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Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: We have considered Senator Mullen's amendment, but, unfortunately, we will not support it. I say "unfortunately", because Senator Mullen brings a good knowledge to the debates in here. There is a tendency among Ministers to dismiss utterly anything that comes from this side, and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform has shown a slight tendency to do this today. That is unfortunate...

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: I was here for most of it.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: I am speaking on the amendment, but I wondered why the Oireachtas is not given power to make adverse findings, and that was not answered. Given the fact that a Minister has already promised an inquiry, how does that fit in? I am not in favour of an inquiry here, but the principle of the Minister-----

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: It is not outside the scope of the amendment. It is about fair procedures. This particular group is very genuine and the particular doctor at issue was referred to as "Dr. Filth" in a newspaper article. I want to be clear that I am not supporting the doctor. However, the Minister was under significant political pressure in respect of a particular doctor, refused a public inquiry, as the...

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: He is telling us that the Minister for Health does not have the power, or will not have the ability, to establish inquiries.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: That is at variance with what the Minister for Health told the campaigning group-----

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: The Minister for Health, on behalf of the Government, has promised an investigation. That is worrying because-----

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: He may well be, but that is the point. When the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, came into the Seanad a few weeks ago, he said that there was no Whip in the Seanad, that the Government is not responsible for Seanad Éireann and that his colleagues could vote whatever way they want. However, they all voted with the Government and all the Independents came over to this side for the...

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: Will it make findings?

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: I made a point about "adverse findings" rather than "findings".

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: It is interesting that the Supreme Court described "adverse findings".

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: With good reason. There will be legal bills.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: I did not have time to read the draft but I am encouraged by the Minister's response to those questions. There have been leaks from tribunals and there continues to be leaks from them. However, we should not say tribunals are a total waste of time.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: They may be a waste of money but they have not been a waste of time.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: Tribunals have succeeded in bringing forward many facts which were in the rumour mill but were not on the public record. They have played an important role in that.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: Of course there is the issue of cost. On the other hand, the committees of inquiry have done a good job. The Minister was unfair when he talked about Father X or Brother Y. That only happened in certain specific cases where criminal trials were pending. Many priests were named, particularly in the Dublin report. Many of the priests referred to in the Cloyne report had not been brought to...

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: There is no point reading the Constitution in any event. One would have to read the late Professor Kelly's book to show what the Supreme Court said and what the Articles all mean. I do not have €300 to pay Messrs. Hogan and Whyte for their book. This is an issue we might take up again. Senator Mullen's amendment consists of two sentences. The first sentence, which states that the...

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: The results of the banking inquiry.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: On a point of order, is it not the case that Members may speak on Committee Stage for an unlimited time?

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Committee and Remaining Stages (22 Sep 2011)

Thomas Byrne: There is an amount of tut-tutting going on which-----

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