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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Is there a change in policy?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Is the Department cautious because the economy is now better? What led to its caution?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: No. Will Mr. Watt just explain to me what has led to the Department's caution.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Therefore, the motivation to achieve value for money was not on the same level as finding a way to build in a difficult environment.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Is that not the kernel of the matter, proving there is value for money?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: What I have before me is the audit from the European Union. I have the one prepared by the budget office. Its theme is the difficulty in proving value for money on any level. What the audit states is that the brakes should be hit.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Yes, the one Mr. Watt will read in due course. It states we should put the brakes on PPPs and not promote a more intensive and widespread use of them until the issues which have been identified are addressed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: All of them, including the one from the budget office and many more, state value for money has not been established. That is why we were all hot under the collar about post-project reviews not being published because that would have given some indication to us on whether there was value for money. Mr. Watt can see from where we were coming.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Value for money.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: I have often mentioned that I sat at local level for a long time - 17 years - when I heard the constant refrain that PPPs were excellent and that public contracts were bad. There was no evidence whatsoever for that refrain and it is very worrying that that was the way we went. I heard in Galway only last week about a project I will not mention. It was in the music sector and said PPPs were...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Is that the longest?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Those two are what I would refer to as the bad ones. I am not saying they are bad, but they tie us in to high traffic.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: That is against all advice on climate change, and so on. I am sorry, I interrupted Mr. Kennedy, but those two are 45 years and -----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Let us return to schools. According to this document prepared by the Parliamentary Budget Office, it quotes from a report saying:The increasing level of unitary payments which arise on PPP projects [...] is an issue of concern for the Education budget, given the large unitary charge in the budget for 25 schools built using the PPP model capital. In 2016, for example, of the total Education...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: It was 12% the previous year.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: How many colleges does that apply to?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Is it correct that most of the Department's PPPs are for secondary schools?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: What is the direct comparison between a direct build and a PPP of a secondary school.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: No, I am asking that now, given the fact that 12% of the education budget in 2016 went on PPPs.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: I will return to that in a moment. If one were to build a secondary school in Galway city, for example -----

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