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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: I read Mr. Bourke's opening statement when it arrived. It is clear that Mr. Bourke is an experienced solicitor with plenty of exposure to large clients. The fact that he did the initial public offering, IPO, for Aer Lingus means he had some exposure to aviation prior to his appointment, although he acknowledges he does not come from an aviation background. Our job today is to examine his...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: Speaking as someone who is a chair and has also been a chair of school boards and various other councils, local authorities and regional authorities, it is a particular kind of skill. I am not doubting Mr. Bourke for a second but it is important that we hear that because we would not have known that from his opening statement, for example.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: Mr. Bourke has had lots of exposure. I was not doubting him for a second but it is important to hear about that. While we can talk about AirNav, and we will, what we are doing today is as follows. The role of the committee is to assess all of the chair-designates of all of the various State bodies under our remit in the Department of Transport and in the bit of the Department of the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: That is two per month or thereabouts.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: It was a seamless transfer in that the people who were finishing their shifts on 29 April moved to the people on 30 April.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: Maybe the stationery had changed but what they were doing on a day-to-day basis was exactly the same.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: I get that its complicated. We visited Ballygirreen and Ballycasey and I have been out to the new tower in Dublin Airport as well. The Shannon flight information region, FIR, is totally in the remit of AirNav. That belongs to Ireland and AirNav. We operate the Shannon oceanic transition area, SOTA, and the northern oceanic transition area, NOTA, on behalf of the UK. Is that right?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: It is international airspace but there is some tie-in with the UK. Why is that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: Apologies if I am doing so. We slightly teased it out when we were down there but it is something I was not totally-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: I know that Shanwick is a combination of Shannon and Prestwick, which is where the name came from. The Shanwick and the big huge box it is in with the oceanic control area, OCA, and the FIR, are managed jointly by Ireland and the UK. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: We are both earning revenue from every aircraft that goes through the big Shanwick box as well as the NOTA, SOTA and the Shannon FIR. That is all a revenue-generating box for Ireland Inc.-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: -----and AirNav, on behalf of the State.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: AirNav is not in the direct line of fire of Michael O’Leary but air traffic controllers in the UK have been and air traffic control in France, in particular, has been in his sights. We might also touch on sustainability in a minute. What relationship, if there is one, does AirNav Ireland have with the French or the UK as regards what they are doing that is causing us problems? Do we...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: Ultimately, if there are problems in France, it is clearance is being given to planes that are leaving Ireland. They talk to each as to what happens but you cannot influence.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: In terms of staffing, Mr. Bourke spoke about ramping up and how aviation has bounced back faster that others. I saw something on X that said that planes were holding over Longford because people were on breaks or people could not land at a ridiculous time. It may be totally untrue. Is it true?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: I am glad I am the first person to ask Mr. Bourke.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: What causes a shutdown in airspace?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: Because it was at that time of the night when there were almost no flights.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: So they might have arrived in Irish airspace a bit earlier than they expected to because of winds.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Irish Air Navigation Service: Chairperson Designate (8 Nov 2023)

Gerry Horkan: It is not something I have heard of before. Is this a new phenomenon or does it happen regularly? How often does it happen?

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