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Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: The Minister has just stated something very significant and I ask him to clarify it. With regard to a woman with suicidal intent, if there is no underlying mental health issue, a psychiatrist must certify.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: No, I am talking about the State.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: Yes, and the medical professionals who carry out the procedure.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: I asked a fundamental question. The Minister has differentiated between a pregnancy and a baby.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: I wish to ask a brief question.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: I thank the Minister for coming back to me. I ask the Minister to correct me if I am wrong. He said that if a foetus is viable outside of the womb then in the case of section 9 it cannot be certified for a termination. Does that not set a term limit on it?

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: I tabled an amendment opposing the section. I am opposed to the section. I articulated my concerns earlier on this and I would like to make a few brief points on it. Suicide is a real risk in pregnancy and there is no doubt about that. We all have to acknowledge it. However, it is important that we note the evidence given by Professor Kevin Malone to the committee. A balance has to be...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: I move amendment No. 50: In page 11, lines 21 and 22, to delete “, in addition to appointing medical practitioners duly identified by it for appointment to the review panel,”.These amendments are fairly self-explanatory. They seek to have the Health Service Executive, HSE, appoint people to the review panel who have been nominated by the various colleges. Earlier, the Minister...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: I see the Minister's logic but the problem is that the way this section is constructed is the other way round. If what he is saying is correct, he needs to invert this section because it states that the HSE will establish a panel of medical practitioners and then may add to that based on a request to the various colleges. It also states that if the HSE considers it appropriate, it can...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: I do not want to dwell on this but the point I am making to the Minister is that he is not giving the colleges the opportunity to appoint. That is not what the section says. The HSE will appoint a panel and request the colleges to make nominations and it is then at the discretion of the HSE whether it appoints those nominees to the panel. It is not that the Minister is asking for the...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: The problem is that section 11(4) adds that caveat to it. The colleges will nominate medical practitioners for appointment but the HSE will then decide if it will appoint them to the panel. I think the Minister is putting the cart before the horse and I ask him to look again at it in advance of Report Stage.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: I am pressing it.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: I move amendment No. 51: In page 11, to delete lines 28 and 29.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: On that specific issue, we have historic problems in Roscommon getting consultants to travel there from Galway.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: Let me finish. Deputy Conway has raised an important point. Members of the review panel should travel to meet the woman, not the other way round. If a woman is seeking a review, she should not have to travel to Dublin, Cork or Galway to meet at the behest of the panel. The panel members will have agreed to this and the three of them should travel to meet the woman if that has to be done...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: This needs to be clarified in the legislation in order to ensure it happens, because consultants are loth to travel to smaller hospitals to conduct such assessments.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: First, I might revisit the issue of the consultants travelling on Report Stage. My question is about subsection (4). It states that notice shall be given in writing. It is a technical matter, but does that include electronic communication?

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: I will repeat what I said. Subsection (4) states "give notice in writing". Would that include electronic communication? There is an issue in some legislation as to whether that phrase includes electronic communication. When there is an issue of time involved electronic communication should also be allowed. Is that provided for in the wording? Should it say "communicate with" the woman...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: I wish to make one point about the valid point made by Deputy Ó Caoláin. I can see where the Minister is coming from. As public representatives, we all attend oral hearings with the Department of Social Protection or whatever in order to assist constituents. Officialdom can be daunting and, in this case, one would be faced with three highly qualified consultants. I wish to make...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Denis Naughten: No.

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