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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: I understand one of the recommendations of Mr. Kelly's report is that this should happen. It is not that we can just say it is up to the individuals. It is recommended. Mr. Kelly's report also states - the Commissioner touched upon this - that support would then be given to those individuals to explain their obligations to them. It is one of the recommendations of the interim audit...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: On that issue, I will make one quick point because it is important.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: We heard that Mr. Nugent is taking charge of the complaint made by Mr. Howard in respect of Mr. Kelly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: What I am saying is that now that we know that very similar charges were made by Mr. Culhane in respect of Mr. Barrett, which Mr. Barrett also only learned about recently, will that matter also be examined by the Commissioner?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Will Mr. Nugent take it up because they were very similar charges?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: We are all tired after a long day but it has been extraordinary. I found a lot of the statements and answers given by some of the witnesses today to be shambolic and deeply troubling. It is a real matter of concern for us because we are messengers of the people. We have to make sure good practices are in place and taxpayers' money is spent well. It is impossible for anybody who listened to...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: I will return to those issues in a few minutes. From a legal perspective, and the perspective of processes, policies and procedures, does Mr. Ruane agree that if somebody watched the proceedings for the first time today, having been unaware of the issues, they would be deeply troubled?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: The note of Mr. Barrett's meeting with the Garda Commissioner is dated 1 October 2015.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Barrett said the Commissioner perused the 2008 report and concluded that there was no evidence of misappropriation. Is that what she said?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Was that premature on her part?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Barrett did comment on the Commissioner.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: He said the Commissioner perused the 2008 report and concluded that there was evidence of misappropriation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Was that a declaration of faith on her part?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: Was it wishful thinking on her part?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: We will ask her. Mr. Barrett said the meeting debated the degree to which the Department was aware of these issues. He noted that there were differences of opinion but that he felt the Department was likely to be completely unaware of them.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: What was Ms Barry aware of?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: When did it supply them? The note in question was 1 October 2015.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: So it was after the meeting. When this was being discussed, was the Department aware of any of these issues?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: We are tight for time so I ask Ms Barry to write to the committee to explain exactly what the Department was aware of prior to 1 October 2015. Mr. Barrett goes on to say there was a reticence on the part of the Commissioner and others to accept the conclusions of the 2008 report and other materials added by the CAO.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

David Cullinane: The Commissioner had concerns over the possibility that the 2008 report was overly critical and the problems overstated.

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