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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (Resumed) (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: We will see what they say and that will inform our next move.

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I might not even need the ten minutes but I thank the Chairman. In fairness to Mr. Daly, he probably gave us much of the information in the pack. Could he give me the average price for one of his members compared to the average on the State side?

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: It is okay. The figure is €1,400. Why is there such a wide difference?

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Mr. Daly said a take-it-or-leave-it approach is employed. Is Mr. Daly advised that the HSE operates to certain criteria or metrics? He mentioned that the arrangement is based on historical pricing and geography. Is there any formula provided to Mr. Daly stating how the calculation is done?

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Mr. Daly said geography seemed to be one of the criteria. If Mr. Daly had a member in Dublin 2, Dublin 4 or Dublin 6 and another in Sligo, for example, what would be the difference in running costs for them? Are they not paying staff at the same rate and paying the same amount for electricity services?

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: From talking to your members, does Mr. Daly believe there is a difference in cost? If I own a nursing home in Sligo and Deputy Cassells owns one in Dublin, will he have more overheads than me? Does he have to pay higher salaries for physicians and staff? What are the facts?

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: That is in terms of building a new home. Apart from that, what about operating costs?

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Has Nursing Homes Ireland, as a representative organisation, criteria that it would like to see employed in terms of the allocation? Does it simply want the same money being paid on the State side?

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: As part of Nursing Homes Ireland's own research, has it come up with a model that it feels should be employed?

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: One is out.

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I wonder whether it would be helpful in our work if Nursing Homes Ireland sent us its vision of what the model should be. Transparency, accountability, openness and fairness are all very general terms.

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: What kind of push-back is Nursing Homes Ireland getting from the National Treatment Purchase Fund or higher up in the general HSE on that?

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I appreciate that individual members negotiate their own rates. However, has Nursing Homes Ireland come across a clear discriminatory practice whereby nursing home A is getting X per day and nursing home B is getting X multiplied by two, or plus €50, per day?

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Would Mr. Daly say that the differentials there would underpin discrimination based on no criterion other than that members can be forced to take less in one area while they may have to be paid a little more somewhere else?

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I have a question on membership. Have nursing homes attached to religious organisations, such as Brothers of Charity in Roscommon, evolved and become private? Are such organisations members of Nursing Homes Ireland?

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: So the likes of Brothers of Charity-----

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: It would be a member, as with Brothers of Charity. I noted in some of the research some of the issues that have arisen. Mr. Daly mentioned that additional charges for social outings, etc., are agreed with the patient when he or she arrives, and that they are not covered under the various schemes. I came across a case where people in certain institutions were being charged for...

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: How does it do that scientifically? Are people told?

Public Accounts Committee: Engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland (14 Jun 2018)

Marc MacSharry: What happens then?

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