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Seanad: Health (Amendment) Bill 2004: Second Stage. (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: It is not parliamentary democracy. One either represents taxpayers or one does not.

Seanad: Health (Amendment) Bill 2004: Second Stage. (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: The Senator will tell local councillors throughout the country that he did the business by them when in fact in 45 minutes he will vote to abolish their role on health boards. I cannot see how that can be called democratic.

Seanad: Health (Amendment) Bill 2004: Second Stage. (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: It is parliamentary democracy À la Fianna Fáil.

Seanad: Health (Amendment) Bill 2004: Second Stage. (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: I suspect I have more sympathy with the purpose of the Bill than most of colleagues who have spoken. There are genuine difficulties with local health boards and the way in which they have discharged their duties over the years. I do not lay the blame specifically or exclusively at the health boards' door because they have an impossible job. They have been asked to administer a system and be...

Seanad: Adoptive Leave Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: Can I make a contribution?

Seanad: Adoptive Leave Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: I appreciate that.

Seanad: Adoptive Leave Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: I am clear about the general nature of the amendment but if I could make one point it will save me trying to find some other excuse to make it later. It does not refer specifically to the issue of equality the Minister talked about but another issue of equality, that is, as between both parents. It appears there is a difference in essence between adoptive leave and a mother getting leave in...

Seanad: Adoptive Leave Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: I move amendment No. 4: In page 5, to delete lines 20 to 26 and substitute "period of 8 weeks.". I apologise for the absence of my colleague, Senator Tuffy. She is unwell but I hope she will be here later. The amendment seeks to amend the provision covering cases where the mother dies during the course of the leave. As I understand the existing provision, the adoptive father simply takes over...

Seanad: Adoptive Leave Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: I am disappointed and a little surprised by the Minister's attitude. I have never known him to bow down quite as low at the alter of social partnership previously. Indeed, had I known he would take this approach I am sure we could have come up with some of his past rosy quotes on social partnership. On a more serious level, this amendment is very narrow and would refer to a relatively small...

Seanad: Adoptive Leave Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: This amendment is of some importance. Until a few years ago, the process of foreign adoption was relatively swift, and in some countries too swift. The Irish authorities have been to the fore in insisting the procedures in countries such as Russia and China, for example, are brought more in line with what we regard as being acceptable. As the Minister well knows, Irish law is quite rigid on...

Seanad: Adoptive Leave Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: ——unless one had a sense of adventure which went beyond mine. We are not talking about Tuscany or the south of France but inhospitable parts of the world where people are obliged to spend time — they do not do so by choice — in a tortuous process, the result of which is not certain, in order to comply with the proper requirements of those countries. I urge the Minister to give serious...

Seanad: Adoptive Leave Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: Perhaps we have cause to be grateful that the Minister is bound by social partnership because the argument he has used could be deployed against providing any measure of adoptive leave at all. It could be used against providing any measure of leave or holidays. It could certainly have been deployed against the extension of paid and unpaid leave introduced following the review a number of...

Seanad: Adoptive Leave Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: There is a temptation to chuckle, as some did, when Senator Walsh makes certain comments. Many adoptive parents would find offensive the notion that they go away to enjoy a few glasses of Chianti while checking out India, China or Siberia and considering whether they might like to adopt a child. That is not the way it happens. Adoptive parents undergo a serious, lengthy and tedious procedure...

Seanad: Adoptive Leave Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: People in this type of situation do not consider it funny. Those who opt for foreign adoption are frequently people who have tried to adopt Irish children or to have children naturally. The notion that people would choose to say they are going to a particular country to find out about foreign adoptions as an excuse to go on a holiday is offensive. While I know Senator Walsh did not intend his...

Seanad: Adoptive Leave Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: What does the Minister believe is reasonable?

Seanad: Adoptive Leave Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: I wish to say a final word on the matter. I will not revisit the issue with Senator Walsh. There is another point that should be made. Foreign adoption as an option is really only available to people who have some measure of means. It is in most cases pretty expensive although most of that expense is not something that is imposed by this country or has anything to do with it, good, bad or...

Seanad: Adoptive Leave Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: The Minister would regard that as a compliment anyway.

Seanad: Committees of the Houses of the Oireachtas (Compellability, Privileges and Immunities of Witnesses) (Amendment) Bill 2004: Second Stage. (27 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: I welcome the Aire Stáit to the House. I will start where Senator O'Toole finished, on the subject of the whole business of making it up as one goes along. We all acknowledge that there is of necessity a certain ad hoc air about this. It strikes me we are just looking around the next corner rather than trying to look around a few corners at a time. In essence, we are doing today what we have...

Seanad: Committees of the Houses of the Oireachtas (Compellability, Privileges and Immunities of Witnesses) (Amendment) Bill 2004: Committee and Remaining Stages. (27 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: Arising from the Minister of State's concluding comments on Second Stage, will she take me through the self-incrimination argument again? It is accepted, and is obviously a matter of law under the 1997 Act, that anything said during the course of the process cannot be used in the courts to sustain a criminal trial or anything of that kind. Surely, however, self-incrimination also applies to...

Seanad: Committees of the Houses of the Oireachtas (Compellability, Privileges and Immunities of Witnesses) (Amendment) Bill 2004: Committee and Remaining Stages. (27 May 2004)

Derek McDowell: I accept that is the case but I am concerned that we are asking, within the integrity of the process we are discussing, namely, the investigation followed by hearings, if any, of the House, the individual — the judge — to incriminate himself in a way that will obviously inform the decision ultimately taken by the Houses. Let us try not to discuss a specific case and remain theoretical. We...

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