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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: Dr. McLoughlin can answer but will not.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I am not surprised that Dr. McLoughlin will not answer. What does Mr. O'Brien think of this budget issue? Did Mr O'Brien prepare figures for Dr. McLoughlin in order that he could fight the case on behalf of Mr. O'Brien and ensure sufficient funds were received? Obviously Mr. O'Brien prepared a budget.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: My question does not relate to the decisions of the Government, which I understand. I want to know how the process works and Mr. O'Brien has clarified this matter. It is the case that the HSE prepares a budget plan taking known and unknown factors into account and arrives at a figure as a best estimate of its needs for the year. Mr. O'Brien, in turn, then presents that to Mr. McLoughlin,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: See, Mr. McLoughlin, that was easy. I would say co-operation and courtesy is not a bad thing. Can Mr. O'Brien tell me the cost of running the whole medical card examination - that section that was set up to implement the policy?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: You are chasing a figure of 4% in terms of the medical reviews and all of that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: What I was trying to establish is how much it costs to chase that 4%. If one were examining an aged debt, one would have to decide how much it would cost to chase that amount of money and it may be that perhaps it is not worth it. Did that type of analysis take place within the HSE? There is no point in asking Mr. McLoughlin that question because he will not tell me.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: You have examined it and taken the measurement, which is fine.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: How much of that work is outsourced?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: What is the cost involved?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: This is outsourced in Dublin, is it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I have one further question before I call Deputy O'Donnell. Deputy Connaughton made the point, with which I am in agreement, that a considerable amount of paperwork is lost in this process. Is that paperwork going to the data input section? Where is likely to be misplaced or lost in the system? Does it happen at some other stage?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: Is that the data input section?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: Is that where the information goes, and then it is sent to us from there?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: So it starts there.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I call Deputy O'Donnell.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: Time, Deputy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I have to ask the Deputy to conclude.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: I ask Mr. O'Brien to furnish a report to Deputy O'Donnell. I will continue with the Limerick group and perhaps will ask a more general question of Dr. McLoughlin. Were Mr. O'Brien to decide, for example, that an assistant is needed in the aforementioned hospital group, who would clear that decision? Is it Dr. McLoughlin or is it Mr. O'Brien? Who has the authority in that regard?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: Let us say there was an assistant chief executive officer to be appointed to that group of hospitals to which Deputy O'Donnell has just referred and it is a new post. Can such a post to be filled without competition and without disclosing the salary?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 38 - Health
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Chapter 21 - Budget Management in Health Service Executive
Chapter 22 - Eligibility for Medical Cards
(12 Jun 2014)

John McGuinness: In that case, is it a fact that an assistant chief executive officer, a new post, was appointed without competition and is in receipt of an undisclosed salary?

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