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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: If, following the process that is not only going on here but in PwC also, and I am being hypothetical, which perhaps I should not be, they said they were not happy that the contracts committee adequately scrutinised or analysed the proposal before them, which may have set alarm bells ringing, how then is it held to account?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: That is the Government.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: Why is a contracts committee needed at all if-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: They agreed the derogation so it is their responsibility.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: The committee permitted it, so it would not have been able to proceed in that role without that derogation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: Were people with independent expertise asked to comment and inform?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: I do not doubt that they were put on it with the best will and intention.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: We would not have had a two-stage process, which has led to an overrun, without a derogation being given to the board by the contracts committee.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: The ultimate responsibility for granting it to them was given by the contracts committee.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: Who is the contracts committee answerable to? As Kissinger said about Europe, "Who do I call?" Who do we call when we want to check the work of the contracts committee?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: That derogation was granted and the board was allowed to go down this road, which led ultimately to the overrun. Mr. Watt said he sits on another committee that meets on a weekly basis to discuss capital spending across all Departments. I imagine it engages in extra scrutiny around the time of the Estimates. However, the information was not relayed to Mr. Watt to bring forward an Estimate....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: I argue that the experts on the contracts committee accepted what was presented to them in relation to the bill of quantities, which ultimately proved to be the author of the overrun thereafter. The Mazars report has indicated that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: It did and more power to it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: If I am on the board, however, and that commitment is given to me and I accept that, fair enough, but perhaps the person beside me might insist on an independent assessment rather than depend on my acceptance of the recommendation. As I said to Mr. Watt at the beginning, I would have thought my role was to establish as far as I can who is accountable, who is culpable and how this can be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: In future, there should perhaps be more independent assessment sought by those committees rather than relying on the expertise that is there. With all due respect to the expertise that is there, it was sold a pup.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: I can put it to them but everyone is trying to evade responsibility as far as I can see.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: That might sound a bit too severe. We are all trying to get to the bottom of this because we have a responsibility to the taxpayer. I do because it is the taxpayers who will put me here or not. A derogation was sought. If it had not been, we would not have had a contract akin to the one we have.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: We know where we are. We are at a €450 million overspend at least.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: I cannot talk about hypotheticals, I can only deal with what happened. I have to analyse, on behalf of the taxpayer, what happened and why and I have to ensure it does not happen again.

Written Answers — Department of Housing, Planning, and Local Government: Property Tax Data (12 Mar 2019)

Barry Cowen: 690. To ask the Minister for Housing, Planning, and Local Government the amount of local property tax collected by local authority each year since its introduction; the amount spent each year locally by local authority from the tax either from revenue or the equalisation fund; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12553/19]