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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: For 2018, the figure is €287 million.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: Yes, which means the cumulative value of the agreement across the three-year period is €844 million.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: Yes, if there is any change in that figure of €287 million, it is a figure I need to be able to find within the context of budget 2018.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: No, it has not. We get into the world of inflaters and deflators with those figures. The CSO has just released the figures. In the coming weeks, the Department of Finance will need to consider the impact of that in terms of the availability of resources for 2018. In terms of the timing of all that, over the past number of years, the Government has aimed to provide and update to the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I am certainly planning to do a summer economic statement again for this year, as is the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan. It provides a good opportunity for framing what will happen after the summer period and my understanding, from discussing the matter with the Minister, Deputy Noonan, is there will be a further stability programme update in line with previous years.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: Yes, the end of April.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: It is €1.4 billion per annum.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: That is roughly split between savings as a result of what has happened with pension contributions and the value of pensions and also the value of wages.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I mean the effect of-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: That is it. I have referred to three different factors. First is the impact of the PRD, second is the impact of the PSPR for current pensions and third is the fact that pension levels have come down as earnings went down for a period in the State.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: The PRD refers to earnings and the PSPR refers to pensions.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: PSPR

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: That is exactly it.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: No, what I said to Deputy Sherlock was that the matter of public service pensions will be taken into account in the work of the public service pay commission. We will take that into account in the negotiations that we have in the run up to the summer. As has been the case in the past, we will be negotiating with the public services committee of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. That is...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: It is something that will be considered as part of the broader choice the Government will need to make on the collective agreement. To give an example of how that has worked in the past, which I know the Acting Chairman is familiar with, we have a faster pace of PSPR reduction than we do of PRD reduction. All of that flowed out of decisions and choices that were made across the period of...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I can give the Acting Chairman a further update on this matter. Now I can give him the split between savings generated by lower levels of pay and savings generated by the PRD. As I said earlier, the overall value of the Lansdowne Road agreement savings are €1.4 billion. The exact split is €692 million-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: Excuse me. My words were wrong there. The FEMPI reductions at the end of the Lansdowne Road agreement are €692 million in pay savings and €720 million from the impact of the PRD, which gives a cumulative figure of €1.4 billion. When the Lansdowne Road agreement is implemented, as is being done at the moment, and the pay restoration that is committed to takes place,...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I will have to come back to the Acting Chairman on that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: We have two different figures there. We have the €50 million, which was a consequence of the Labour Court recommendation. That is being dealt with in two ways. The Department of Justice and Equality has already outlined in answers to priority questions asked by the Acting Chairman's colleague, Deputy O'Callaghan, and perhaps also by the Acting Chairman, the itemised savings it has...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(9 Mar 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: There is no change in the figures I published as part of the Revised Estimates. They proposed total gross voted expenditure of €58,072 million, an increase of €43 million or 0.07% of the €58 billion set out in the expenditure report for 2017.

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