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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Just do not interrupt me. To move onto another aspect, we got a document marked PAC32-R-584 for the meeting of 15 June 2017. It was an interim audit report and it is about bank accounts. It said that those accounts have been now closed or are private club accounts. Were private club accounts counted as any of the 40-odd accounts? They were counted as some of those. How many of those...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: To be sure, are credit union accounts and post office accounts regarded in the same way as bank accounts?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: On St. Raphael's Garda Credit Union, it seems money was moved backwards and forwards to that credit union. It is a Garda credit union and I presume guards sit on the board. Is that the case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Okay. I am just wondering where there might be conflicts.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: There are no overseas accounts.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Okay. I just wanted to be sure about that particular aspect. To go back to the risk register, I take that Margaret Nugent's point was actually noted on the risk register in the last quarter of 2016. How was that referenced?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Thank you. Mr. Ó Cualáin said that it did not work very well but that new systems have been put in place since earlier this year. Has he identified why it did not work and why this would not have made its way, given the significant risk that it posed to the reputation of the college and given that the college is supposed to be the centre of excellence for training guards?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: To go back again on another general aspect, many courses are run in Templemore. They are mainly around the criminal code. One area in which people probably feel there is a real risk to the public is that of white-collar crime. I have to say that the way this has been handled in Templemore is not an exemplar from that point of view. We were told that people did not have the skill sets,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I want to return to the point on the money that went into the restaurant account. What was voted money? I want to be clear on that. The money was voted and went to the college for the purpose of maintaining the recruits. The restaurant was one part of that. There would have been some income in the restaurant over and above that, I imagine quite a small amount. My reading of the report...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: It was not used for the purpose for which it was provided then. It went to the sports field account and other things are paid out of that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: But that was not what is was voted for. It was very specifically voted for meals. Is that not the case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: It was a per head payment.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I would like to ask Mr. McGee about his report in which he looked at the restaurant account and identified some of these issues. Is that how he understands what the money was provided for? Was it used in the way that it was intended to be used? Was it intended as a mechanism for funding sports fields?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Mr. McGee made many references to that sports field company in terms of compliance with a whole range of things.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I suspect that when it comes to priorities, the Garda fleet and the cars with 300,000 km on them might be a bigger priority than money going to facilities in the college.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Can I just close off the point I was making?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The very fact it has changed means that it was seen as problematic. The witnesses replies to my questions seem to suggest that they agree with what Deputy Commissioner Rice said in respect of the money being for the use of the college. Some people are saying that is not their understanding or that they do not agree with it, but that is certainly my understanding of what the witnesses are...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Does Ms McMahon agree with Deputy Commissioner Rice on that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Murphy: We know that the restaurant account is one particular aspect of this, but are there others, for example, the garage.

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