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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: On the work programme, we agreed to have a session with Cork Institute of Technology, University College Cork and the Higher Education Authority. The clerk to the committee said at the time that the likely date for that was 14 June. I do not see any date for that, so have we tied down that date?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: It will be 24 May and we will start with that grouping.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: On 24 May. That is grand.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I welcome the witnesses and thank them for taking the time to attend. Did Mr. O'Brien listen to today's edition of "Morning Ireland"?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I hope Mr. O'Brien does. I would ask him to do it as a matter of urgency. In my 16 years in the Oireachtas, it was the most harrowing interview that I have heard about any crisis. A lady we heard about yesterday naturally gave an emotional interview this morning where the presenter even became emotional. Any of us who listened would have been emotional. She stated: "I tried to do...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Mr. O'Brien can take it that I am quoting accurately.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I asked-----

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I fundamentally disagree with Mr. O'Brien. My question was based on accountability for taxpayers' money in the first instance. Irrespective of the outcome of scoping exercises and commissions of investigation, what we now know demands a level of accountability. Who is in charge of the health service?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Mr. O'Brien is in charge.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: So Mr. O'Brien has no accountability.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: But when Mr. O'Brien-----

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: No, it is not. Mr. O'Brien is in charge of the health service. What is crystal clear in advance of any scoping exercise is that we have had a systemic failure and a national health crisis that, to my mind at 44 years of age, is the worst in the history of the State. We know that now and Mr. O'Brien is in charge. How is his position tenable?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: We know that.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Let us use the analogy of the company that Mr. O'Brien has stepped back from as a non-executive director. If the contraceptives it manufactured were faulty, the matter was all over "60 Minutes" and he as a board member called on the CEO to attend a board meeting and explain the situation, could Mr. O'Brien see himself as a non-executive director of a commercial entity telling the CEO not to...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: The response yesterday was to decline respectfully the invitation to resign.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Success has 1,000 fathers. We are talking about failures. An entire nation of women are terrified. We have heard the harrowing story of Ms Phelan. This morning we heard the harrowing story of this lady. She is 37 years of age and is afraid her baby will not remember her. Mr. O'Brien is implying that the HSE set up a system, that the system did a lot of good work and that there were some...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: -----and I put it to him that it is not acceptable. That is the implication.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: In fairness-----

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: None of this is personal-----

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: -----but we do have to hold people to account. It seems there is zero accountability. Mr. O'Brien wants to claim credit for the successes, but when the wheels come off and people start dying, and when a nation of women are terrified this morning, he wants to say that the HSE has done a lot of good work and that we should have a scoping exercise.

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