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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: Exactly, and if that is the case, why is the figure not broken down? Rather than providing detail, the Minister threw in a figure of 250 additional retirements and stated that the Department was seeking an additional €27 million. My point is that there is more to this issue and the Minister should have provided details.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: If the Minister's definition of asking for details of a Supplementary Estimate, which happens-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: Members of the public can make up their own minds on that.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: I will judge the Minister's response on the basis of the information I receive. I would have studied it if it had been provided sooner.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: I will not drop notes to the Minister. I am asking him to provide the information.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: I will allow Deputy McDonald to contribute first.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: We all accept that clear amounts have been calculated but people will ask us for a breakdown of the figures so we need more information. I sought figures and information under the A4 subhead and I stress I do not want to see names. I do not think anyone could suggest that we would ever seek names but I want to see the lump sums of over €100,000. If there were any such lump sums, how...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: Send it on.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: They were permanent.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: It would be helpful if the Minister could include a list of the various categories deemed unestablished by way of information.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: It would be helpful.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: Before we conclude, I have a final comment. That is all. I have no questions on the Public Appointments Service. I am delighted to see what these indicate.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: No. We may be finished with the questions. I am not finished. I will be upfront about this. The Chairman was probably just about to read the statement that we have now concluded our consideration of the Estimates. Until I receive the information, I am not happy to conclude this process. I will have no problem if I get the information this Thursday or Friday, or even next Monday or...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: I accept everything that was said in that briefing note. That is precisely why I phrased what I said the way I said it. I do not want to amend the Estimates or change the Estimates. I do not want to not agree the Estimates; we will vote on that in the Chamber. However, all I am saying is that we are not ready yet to send the message to the clerk of the Dáil stating that we have...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: I do not buy into that nonsense. That is a red herring. This is not valid until it is voted for in the Dáil, and that will not be until next week at the earliest. There is no action preventing this Estimate being voted through the Dáil next week. I am trying to suggest -----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: For clarification, and I wish the clerk to go through the text of what is agreed, I did not ask one simple question. I asked that question. I also asked for details of the ten highest payments, the ten lowest payments, all lump sums over €100,000 -----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: I asked how many people over the €32,500 -----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: Pardon.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: How is it irrelevant?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Supplementary)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Supplementary)
(9 Dec 2014)

Seán Fleming: I will be clear about this. There is a Supplementary Estimate under sub-heading A1. This deals with superannuation allowances, compensation allowances, pensions and children's allowances. There is a requirement under that for an extra €316,000. That is the question I asked about pensions. Under sub-heading A2, there is a Supplementary Estimate required of €808,000. This...

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