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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Would the State Claims Agency, SCA, examine its terms?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: As a result of this case, there is a substantial cost to the State, maybe not directly in terms of paying out the claim but this crisis is going to cost the State a lot of money. Is there any recourse within the service level agreements that the SCA has looked at – perhaps it should it look at them – to determine whether the State has recourse for the cost of this meeting,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Does the SCA have a process in place to always consider that or does it think on reflection that it should have a protocol in place?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Does Mr. Breen think it reasonable that I, as a guest member of this committee, would ask him to reflect between now and the meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts next Thursday, when I will again have the pleasure of talking to him, whether, if the State is about to head into a very expensive line of inquiry, it has any recourse where there is a service level agreement with what might...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I understand that but with a few days to go between now and then Mr. Breen may be in a position to fully answer why we cannot do that, if that will be his position. As director of this agency does Mr. Breen sit on the board of the National Treasury Management Agency, NTMA?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Does the board of the NTMA have a risk register?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Does the risk register include the outcome of cases in the remit of the SCA?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Does the SCA highlight cases of concern in terms of damage to the State which it would highlight in reporting to its chief executive officer, CEO, apart from the strategy committee it mentioned to the Chairman?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: We have established what it does with the Chairman. I am more interested in the CEO of the overall agency. Would Mr. Breen sit down with him periodically to say he is concerned about X, Y or Z?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Are those meetings minuted?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Can Mr. Breen check whether it is possible for him to provide them to this committee confidentially? The committee is in a position to receive such materials and if he can, he might provide them to the secretariat. Is he in a position to tell us whether at those six weekly meetings any of these cases were highlighted as a concern?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I am not specifically interested in non-disclosure but in the broader case. Many people have dealt with that issue. Mr. Breen gave us some dates. The HSE knew about the Vicky Phelan case in 2014. She was not told until 2017. When did the SCA become aware?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Does the SCA consider or quantify reputational damage to the State in respect of its risk register and responsibilities, and tort, which Mr. Breen said raises difficulties?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Alright.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Then it is all the more necessary to read the service level agreement to see if we have recourse because there is substantial reputational damage to the HSE, the Government, ourselves and so on. Mr. Breen mentioned the pre-action protocols. The Bill that brought those into effect or permitted them was the Civil Liability (Amendment) Bill 2017, passed last November.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: The SCA's website named the other Bill. That was the only reason I said it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Mr. Breen might check that. There is a letter on the website, dated 17 October 2017 which states: "...the Health Service Executive (HSE) and the Voluntary Hospitals, are legally obliged to report all adverse events promptly to the State Claims Agency (SCA)." That obviously did not happen-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: -----in this case because it knew in 2014. Was it this case that prompted the SCA to put this up on its website?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Was this the first time the SCA issued such a letter to the hospitals and put it on its website?

Leaders' Questions (9 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: It is the responsibility of the Minister, not the authority.

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