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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Pre-Ryan then, it was not Government policy to ensure that there was equal liability.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: I understand all that. It has been recognised by the witnesses that it is Government policy that it should have been an equal liability. Has that been achieved?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: What percentage of the liability has been met by the religious congregations so far? I refer to what has been paid, not what has been offered. How much has been handed over? Is €194 million an accurate figure comprising voluntary contributions and the indemnity agreement?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: What does that equate to in percentage terms in the context of the overall cost?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Is that not well below 50%?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: When the initial indemnity agreement was put in place, was there a relationship between the payments the congregations made to the indemnity given? They were to pay €128 million. Was there a relationship between that amount being paid and the congregations being indemnified?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: They have paid €106 million of the €128 million.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Are they legally obliged to pay the €128 million?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Because that was part of the indemnity.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: But the Department has not got all of that yet.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: But the Department has not got all of that.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Did Mr. Ó Foghlú say earlier that the Department expects to get all of the €128 million by 2018?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: The €128 million was based on an estimated cost of €250 million. The Comptroller and Auditor General highlighted in his report that the original forecast was for everything, including the cost of the commission, redress, supports and legal fees. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: For the commission and for the redress?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: There was a ballpark figure of €250 million, which will be €1.5 billion before this is finished. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Even if that is stripped out, given the estimate was €250 million, the cost will be multiples of that and we can all accept that.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: The €128 million payout that was part of the indemnity agreement with the congregations was based on the forecast of €250 million, which was dramatically wrong. There is a huge variance between what was forecast and what will eventually be the cost. How was the forecasting done? Earlier in response to Teachta Connolly, Mr. Ó Foghlú referred to a lower number of...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: What was that based on?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: Information from whom or from where exactly?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

David Cullinane: I will stop Mr. Ó Foghlú there because I do not want retrospective excuses. In real time, when somebody was making a decision and estimating a cost, what information did he or she have at the time? One can look back afterwards and say X, Y and Z was not envisaged. What information did the Department have at its disposal? This is not provided in the briefing document or in the...

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