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Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: These are false allegations. Is Deputy Coppinger calling Deputy Nolan a misogynist?

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: If they are different than Deputy Coppinger's view.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: First and foremost, our side has never sought to interpret others’ views in any other way than they have presented them, yet on every occasion there is an interpretation given to these amendments that is not the reason for them. Second, we have never been condescending to anybody with regard to the views that are validly held on the other side of this debate, and we have never...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: I am speaking to the Minister.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: On the age of consent issue, I have always tried to explain that we are happy to effect some changes to some of the content in these particular amendments. The age of consent is 18 for abortion in many countries including Germany, Spain and 21 other countries in the western world. It is not something we would necessarily have a massive difficulty with if a change was sought. This amendment...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: I will not take long. I will be very brief on this.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: People have said that the referendum has passed and that we are simply seeking to introduce the legislation to implement it. However, I note that there are 180 amendments. Of those, 16 are substantially pro-life. Most of the amendments seek a deviation from the Bill itself. During the referendum, much of the debate was consumed by the commitments made by senior members of the Government,...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: No.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: The word "offer" is repeated throughout the amendment. In each of those situations, the offer can be declined. For example, the DVD does not have to be consumed in any way whatsoever. It is offered.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: Information is not-----

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: We said it would lead to this type of legislation.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: I move amendment No. 147:147. In page 15, to delete lines 32 to 35 and substitute the following: “23. (1) Notwithstanding anything in this or any other enactment and notwithstanding any rule of law, or the terms of any oath or contract (whether of employment or otherwise), no healthcare worker or other person shall be under any obligation to carry out, or to make a certification in...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: The other amendments seek to tidy up the elements on freedom of conscience. Amendment No. 148 looks to delete "or midwife" and substitute "midwife, hospital or institution". There is a great argument as to whether institutions have an entitlement to freedom of conscience or conscientious objection. There are many constitutional reasons to state they do because many of them are run by...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: It is interesting how best practice internationally is being solidly ignored in this scenario. I cannot understand why. I gave the examples of New Zealand and Britain. In both countries doctors do not have to make arrangements but abortions happen. Access is not reduced, the law on conscientious objection does not prevent it, etc. We can get lost in ourselves on this issue when, in fact,...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: A cleaner could have to go into an abortion facility - for example, in the case of a surgical abortion - and ensure that the facility is cleaned, etc. He or she may not want to do that because of conscientious objection.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: Chairman, is there any way we can have a little-----

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: Deputy Coppinger had a clean opportunity without any interaction at all from other members. Workers at all levels are equal and should be treated equally. We should not be saying certain workers should be allowed conscientious objection and other workers should not. That is a really important point. We have been having this back and forth on guidelines and primary legislation for the...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: On a point of order this was-----

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: -----a referendum that was on a constitutional amendment not on a Bill.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peadar Tóibín: Let us be clear, Isobel Kennedy of the Referendum Commission indicated to people before the referendum that unlike what Deputy Durkan has said, it was on the deletion of the 8th amendment. Furthermore, all of the detailed aspects of the Bill could not be conveyed in a binary question such as a referendum. People voted for this referendum for lots of different issues not on the word...

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