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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: Where there is a conflict between the interests of the bank and the interests of the public, do the witnesses agree the interests of the public supersede their legal obligations towards the interests of the bank?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: No, it does not. Regardless of how one defines it, my question is, when a public interest director perceives there is a conflict between the public interest and the interests of the bank, do the witnesses agree their duty to act in the public interest supersedes their duty to act in the interests of the bank?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank Mr. Considine but can he answer the question?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: The question I just asked. Would he like me to repeat the question?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: Where it is perceived that there is a conflict between the public interest and the interest of the bank covered under its obligations under company law, does Mr. Considine agree that his legal position is that he should act in the public interest, even though it might be contrary to the interests of the bank?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: In response to Deputy Spring earlier, did I hear Mr. Walsh correctly when he said that previous directors of the Bank of Ireland are not in any way responsible for the collapse of the bank?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: Thank you. Within the context of public interest versus the interest of the bank, I want to come on to the personal insolvency legislation. As I am sure both witnesses are aware, it is the clear intent of the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, and the Government that there would be debt forgiveness as part of the personal insolvency legislation. Mr. Boucher is reported in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: I am very short of time. I do not need Mr. Considine to describe the process. The question I am asking is very specific. The personal insolvency legislation foresees the Bank of Ireland engaging in debt forgiveness. On Monday, Mr. Boucher categorically ruled out the Bank of Ireland doing that. As a public interest director, does Mr. Considine agree with Mr. Boucher's position or oppose...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: With respect, I have very little time. Can Mr. Considine please answer the question I have asked of him?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: Let me ask the question once more then, for clarity.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: All Stages of the personal insolvency legislation were voted through this House last night. The Minister, Deputy Shatter, is on the record as saying that he foresees debt forgiveness as part of that legislation. The chief executive of the Bank of Ireland has publicly and categorically ruled out any such debt forgiveness. As public interest directors, do Mr. Considine and Mr. Walsh support...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: I appreciate that, but that is not answering the question I am asking Mr. Considine.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: I am sorry but I am not going to let Mr. Considine stonewall me on this. Mr. Considine and Mr. Walsh are public interest directors. It is relevant and reasonable for me to ask them whether they agree with Mr. Richie Boucher's position on this most critical of issues.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: It is the law.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: I am not asking Mr. Considine whether he will abide by the law. Can you direct him, Chairman, please?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: The kernel of it is whether the public interest directors support Mr. Boucher's position. The personal insolvency legislation is where the public interest and the interests of the bank are in conflict. The whole point of the public interest directorships is to act, as compelled by legislation, in the public interest where there is a conflict with the interests of the bank. Mr. Boucher's...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: Specifically, the question is whether Mr. Walsh and Mr. Considine support Mr. Boucher's position as he stated it this week.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank Mr. Spring and Dr. Somers for accepting the invitation of the committee. In the interests of time, I will skip straight to the core issue, which is the pension top up of €1.1 billion. Can each outline his role in that decision?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: As I understand it, what the witnesses are saying is that the €1.1 billion was necessary to facilitate the voluntary redundancy of approximately 2,500 staff. Is it the case that, had the State not rescued the bank, these people would not have received voluntary redundancy packages?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: Is it reasonable to assume that had the State not intervened all of the employees of the banks would have lost their jobs and would have done so without very generous voluntary retirement packages?

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