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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: I will be very brief because most of the questions I intended to ask have been asked. I would like to ask about next year's budget for training and development, which represents a significant decrease on the 2018 outturn of €23.5 million. According to the second briefing note that was provided to the committee, it is proposed to allocate just €11.5 million for 2019. The 2018...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: Why has there been such a significant decrease in the budget for this year, by comparison with what was spent last year? Was last year's figure bumped up by a particular training initiative? The 2017 figure was also in excess of €20 million.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: Does it also explain why it was in excess of €20 million in 2017? Given that more than €20 million was provided in 2017 and again in 2018, it seems that all of a sudden there has been a massive decrease of almost €10 million in the 2019 budget.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: Yes, I would like to get a figure for training. I know there are incidental expenses, but I would like to see whether there has been a decrease in the training budget in terms of continuous-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: Could the committee be sent a note on the training element of that budget?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: I would like to ask about some aspects of training. If he does not have the figures today, that is fine. How many members of the force have availed of safeTALK and ASIST suicide prevention training? Does the Garda run a standard training programme?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: One of my bugbears is that many people have not been given suicide prevention training. I am not just talking about members of An Garda Síochána; I am also talking about teachers and nurses, etc. Everybody who deals with the public, including Deputies and Senators, should have such training. I know the HSE runs these courses free of charge. There is not even an expense on it....

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: Would every squad car have a Naloxone pack? If they came across an overdose would they have a pack in the car or nearby that they could access?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: I appreciate that, however sometimes time is of the essence and by the time people ring an ambulance and it arrives, it may be too late. Although I do not have figures for the numbers of people who may or may not have been saved, in my area in Cork there are pharmacies which provide the service. They have trained pharmacists, particularly those who distribute the methadone programme....

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: Yes. I am not asking Mr. Twomey to give a definite answer today. I am asking that it could be considered that there be a number of gardaí who have this experience as it could save a life at some stage.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: How many personnel are in the protective service unit, PSU, roughly?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: What kind of training do those individuals undertake before being appointed to the PSUs?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: What about other areas? In community policing, is the number of community gardaí increasing, decreasing or is it demand-led? In areas such as my own they work really well. If you know the first name of your community garda then he is doing a good job, and thankfully we do know the name of ours. Is there a community garda in every area?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: The community forums are a classic example of how successful that can be.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: The other thing is that gardaí are human. Sometimes we kind of forget that. I am sure that gardaí face the same stresses and pressures as any other member of the public. How big are mental health issues within the force? Obviously, if a garda goes through a very traumatic experience, I am sure that there are counselling services in place to help deal with that but, in terms of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: I agree with that completely. Are many members of the force out sick on mental health issues, just from pressures?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: However, we do not know how many have taken up that service.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: As the witness said, that is probably a timely reminder to members of the force. Obviously there are certain professions or vocations such as the Garda where people might be uneasy about speaking about these issues internally because, regardless of whether we like it, there is still a stigma attached to mental health and I am sure the stigma within the Garda is no different.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: I have a final question. To return to the drug units, are they dependent on the market? For example, in my area of Cork there are a number of drug units and a number of people assigned to them. Does that number go up and down based on intelligence?

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