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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: What page are we on?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The money comes into the Department and a portion of it goes to Irish Water.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The rest of the fund goes to the Exchequer.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The Department does not transfer it directly, or does it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Right. Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: As the amount of time available to me is quite limited, I propose to put a number of questions to which I would like succinct answers. I have some sympathy with a number of the points made by Deputy Cassells about the local property tax. After this tax is collected at local government level, the local authorities that are net contributors transfer money to the Department. They retain 80%...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Yes, it is.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Okay. They can retain 80%.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The option to reduce is open to some local authorities. Every time there has been a change, it has been a reduction.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Has it not?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Okay. Have any local authorities that are net recipients reduced the tax?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Have any of the net recipients that receive funds when the 20% of moneys that are collected elsewhere are redistributed reduced their local property tax rates in turn?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I would like to ask about how this is determined. Mr. McCarthy has spoken about a surplus situation. This presupposes that everything is equal. There are deficits in some areas with growing populations because appropriate services are not provided to match those populations. Where does the census of population fit into the Department's calculation of the amounts that are deemed to be...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Okay. When the census of population kicks in, it will not make any difference.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: No. Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The regional planning guidelines are recommending a very large increase in population in County Kildare, where I live. They are factoring in an increase of 83,000 people between now and 2023. However, the calculations for the county will still be made on the basis of it having a surplus. It is considered, based on how these things are calculated, that the additional population will not...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: It has to come out of the 80% of the local property tax.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: The level of need was calculated at a point in time. A council area with a growing population will get extra property tax. That is essentially what Mr. McCarthy is telling me.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: Yes. The only advantage of a growing population is that the local property tax will bring in some income. The last time I looked at the staffing ratios across the country, I saw that they varied considerably. This point has been made. The lowest staffing ratio is in Meath County Council and the highest is in Kerry County Council. Kerry County Council has nearly double the staff even...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Environment, Community and Local Government
(2 Mar 2017)

Catherine Murphy: I will stop Mr. McCarthy there. Areas that are growing in population are worse off. Such an area might not be worse off at a point in time, but it will be worse off as its population grows if its baseline was poor to begin with. An area with an inadequacy of services and an inadequacy of staff was always going to be disadvantaged by virtue of this particular scenario.

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