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Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: How many staff in the Tax Appeals Commission have legal training?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Ms Maney said earlier that she needs ten or 12 commissioners.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I turn to the types of cases and companies which may have wrongly classified workers for PRSI contributions, that is, where they were classed as having an S contribution as self-employed when they should have been classified as PAYE when Revenue and the Tax Appeals Commission make a judgment on these. How many companies are involved in such cases? Many of the cases related to corporation...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Ms Maney should send a note to the committee please on the number of companies where there are cases of unsettled tax where it relates to the misclassification of PRSI in those cases, as well as the quantum of that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Would it be more than 5% of the commission's work, for example?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Therefore it is possibly less than 5%.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Did I hear correctly that the commission made a judgment that these workers in that recent case were actually employees, not self-employed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: There was one case where the commission ruled in 2018 that a company owed €215,000. While I do not expect Ms Maney to have knowledge of that, as she has been in office for less than a year, does she have knowledge of the nature of that case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: There is a current case stemming from 2019 where the commission ruled against a company and found that it owed Revenue for unpaid PRSI. As this case is going to the High Court, Ms Maney needs to be careful, as do I. What is the figure in that case? It is also a fast food supplier.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: As a ruling has been made on it, I can say the name of the company, which is Domino's Pizza. I understand that case is going to the High Court. I do not want Ms Maney to comment on the validity of the case or its merit.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Ms Maney has no knowledge of the figure?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I have some questions on Covid. On the percentage of cases won by appellants and how many are upheld by the commission, I think Ms Maney said it was 70:30 in favour of Revenue or slightly over that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I think some members have more questions.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Outline them briefly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I am going to bring in the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I do not see any other members indicating. I have a fairly straightforward question for Ms Maney. I am curious about the issue of commissioners. As Ms Maney has outlined, there are four commissioners. If I heard her correctly, she said that she could do with having 12 commissioners. The commission is doing important work and is making good progress with it, but it is obviously being...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Apologies for rushing Ms Maney, but we are short on time. As I understand it, the commission has applied to the Department of Finance, which has approved the request to recruit eight additional commissioners.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Ms Maney believes that the commission needs eight additional commissioners. I accept that. Earlier, Ms Maney mentioned a tiered system. I take that to mean that commissioners with varying degrees of experience will be at different levels and on different salaries.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Obviously, the commission will want very experienced people with legal and accountancy training to work on the more high-value cases. However, in respect of cases that are valued at under €5,000 or €1,000, perhaps even some of us could work on such cases. How much would it cost, roughly, to recruit eight additional commissioners?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
Chapter 14 - Management of Tax Appeals
(8 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I wish to probe that figure of €4.2 billion further. That is the figure that is in my mind. That needs to be sorted out. In relation to the recruitment of the eight additional commissioners, Ms Maney mentioned that the recruitment of two commissioners at the lower end who would deal with smaller cases would cost €160,000 per annum, or €80,000 per commissioner. How...

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