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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: In response to a parliamentary question the Minister for Finance stated: "To address the scope for actual and perceived conflicts between the fiduciary responsibilities of the directors of financial institutions under company law and the wider public interests ... [I am skipping a line or two but the meaning holds] ... the over-riding duty of directors [the Minister is talking about public...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: I have a copy of the 2010 Act. It is the appointment of public interest directors specifically that is being talked about in section 48, to align the activities of the relevant institutions and the duties and responsibilities of their officers with the public interest. As the delegates are aware, section 48 goes on to state the duty imposed by subsection (1) to which I have referred, the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: That is clear. If there was no difference between public interest and non-public interest directors, there would be no need for this provision. There is specific legislation dealing with the delegates' role which is unique in response to the crisis. I find it extraordinary that they say there is no legal difference between their role and that of directors. There is a difference. There is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: Does Mr. MacSharry consider himself to be governed by the 2010 Act?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: Is it reasonable for me to say the over-riding duty is to the public interest?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: Therefore, Mr. MacSharry is not constrained by his duty to the institution.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank Ms Hayes. We agree, therefore, that, by law, the delegates are covered by legislation which states their over-riding duty is to the public interest.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: That is very different from saying they are simply bound by company law. They are not. There is legislation which provides that one can over-ride any of those responsibilities in the public interest.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: That is not what has been said. There is a very important distinction.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank Mr. MacSharry. I will stay with the issue because this is very important. I accept what Mr. MacSharry has read which goes on to state, "To address the scope for actual and perceived conflict..." Let us think carefully about what the Minister said. He said one's responsibility was to the institution. However, for public interest directors, there is the potential for actual...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes. I thank Mr. MacSharry.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: Great. This is important because it is a nice gateway to the next issue I wish to raise. I wish to continue on an issue raised by Deputy Pearse Doherty. As the delegates will see on the screen, the Personal Insolvency Bill is making its way through its Final Stages and we will vote on it this evening. I regret that I will vote against it, having supported the Minister for Justice and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: I am sorry to cut across Mr. MacSharry but I have very little time remaining and this is a very important point. As a public interest director. he might answer, as might Ms Hayes, in respect of that example an individual who borrowed €400,000, can service a mortgage of €250,000 and her personal insolvency professional recommends that it be €250,000 and recommends that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: Could Mr. MacSharry answer the specific question?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: It is not hypothetical at all.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: I am going to interpret Mr. MacSharry's answer as a "No" because what he said is that the bank is not going to engage in this sort of thing.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: It does not seem that the witness, wearing his public interest director hat, is doing that. In consulting, in which I spent several years, there is a phrase used and whenever we sent a team to a client we were always afraid that they would go native and by that I mean that they would forget what their job was and would become part of the client they had gone into see. I say this with the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank Mr. Walsh and Mr. Considine for accepting the invitation to come before the committee. Do they believe they are exclusively bound by company law in their role as directors of Bank of Ireland?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion (20 Dec 2012)

Stephen Donnelly: Do the witnesses accept they can breach company law if it is in the public interest according to the Act to which Mr. Walsh referred?

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