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Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: I am happy to accept that. The Minister of State did not deal with my first point, probably because I did not put it very clearly. I have had an opportunity to look at it again.

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: I did not express myself clearly. Perhaps I could try again. The relevant parts are set out in section 2(4)(a). It states: "[Where] a person duly receives a written offer of appointment as a public servant before 1 April and takes up that offer after that date,". Section 2(4)(II), which can be read in conjunction with this, states: "where paragraph (a) applies, the terms of the offer of...

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: It does not get any easier.

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: If not why not?

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: Was the Senator not a public servant all along?

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: When I broached the issue of nurses earlier in the debate, the Acting Chairman felt I was out of order. It could be usefully explored in this context. It is common practice, particularly outside Dublin, for nurses who no longer work full time to be on a panel, which makes them available for work whenever a hospital or health institution requires them. I am not clear whether these people are...

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: I cannot allow that comment to go without some sort of rebuttal. The State has a dual role. We must consider this matter from the point of view of the employers. This proposal would unilaterally change the terms of employment for future employees. As the employer of civil servants, the State must ensure that the Civil Service continues to provide the best possible service and that those...

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: The Minister of State is wasted in this job.

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: I wish to raise a point which is a little less arcane than some of the points we discussed earlier. This section gives a facility to people to remain at work beyond the age of 65 years if they choose to do so. It is not clear that this is exactly the case but that is how I read it. However, it then restricts that facility to new entrants. It does not apply to anybody who is currently in the...

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: I would like clarification on a point which relates to drafting as much as to anything else. Can the Minister of State clarify whether, subject to what is in the section, it is the option of the individual garda whether he or she chooses to retire at 55 years of age or stay on for a continued period? It appears from the way it is drafted that it would be open to the commissioner,...

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: The legislation does not make it crystal clear that a garda may choose to leave at 55 years of age. As written, the legislation would allow the commissioner to require the member to continue until he or she was 60.

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: It is not clear that the option is the garda's and not the commissioner's.

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: Where do we stand with this section? In effect this is an enabling section in so far as it enables the Minister for Defence to produce a scheme for the PDF. I am not sure that this has already been published or agreed with the representative bodies within the PDF. Despite this, will the Minister give us the benefit of his notes and let us know the situation?

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: I endorse what others said. Those of us trying to make this argument are in some difficulty. The case is incontrovertible that there are special circumstances affecting teachers and politicians. These circumstances were identified through experience over the years and were dealt with by negotiation with the trade union movement, particularly in respect of teachers. Former members of the...

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: Subsection (2) deals with the Permanent Defence Force. However, when discussing section 8 of the Bill the Minister of State indicated that arrangements for the Defence Forces were still under negotiation and consideration by the Minister for Defence. However, there is a provision in section 10 that specifically provides for a pensionable age from 50 years. Is the matter still under...

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: The Minister of State has been helpful in clarifying the matter. However, it seems remarkable that the Bill will contain a provision which will, in effect, negate its impact. The purpose of the Bill is to do away with existing special arrangements. However, if the Minister for Education and Science decides on 3 April 2004 to put in place the arrangements for new entrants that already exist,...

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: This covers the situation where someone is working beyond 65 and whether those years are taken into account for reckoning service. Is that a correct estimate? It brings into play the related situation whereby people have served 40 years and attained the maximum entitlement to a pension. Do they, or should they, continue to make PRSI contributions or contributions to a defined benefit or...

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: Does that mean the Minister of State has made no decision on the commission's recommendations?

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: It would be useful, and we should provide in the section that there should be consultation with any trade union of which the individual is a member, rather than effectively leaving the decision to management.

Seanad: Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). (26 Feb 2004)

Derek McDowell: The Bill does not say that.

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