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Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Thank you, Dr. Wall.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Deputy, we have gone way over time.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I will let the Deputy back in on the second round of questioning.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: The representative from the Department, Mr. Beausang, wishes to make a point. I ask him to be brief.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I thank Mr. Beausang for the clarification. I do not believe Deputy Verona Murphy has joined us yet. I will call on her when she joins the meeting. The next contributor is Deputy Dillon.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: The Deputy has one minute left.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: The time is up.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Dr. Wall, I want to say-----

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: The witnesses have been advised that they do not have the same level of privilege by not being on campus. It is the choice of the witnesses whether they should be on campus or not. That is the choice of the witness. However, it is a fair question for the Deputy to ask.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I have a couple of questions for Dr. Wall. In his opening statement, he said the HEA also had responsibility for the effective accountability and oversight of governance in HEA-funded higher institutions and that it takes the responsibility very seriously. Deputy Munster dealt with some of this. One of the authority's main functions is as the funding body for the different institutions. In...

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: We will take it that is the case. UL submitted an application for approval for the opera house site to the HEA in 2019. In fact, it submitted it three days before it moved to the Dunnes Stores site. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: The HEA's role seems to be just to write the cheque. Before I write a cheque, which would be for a much smaller sum, I want to know where the money-----

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I ask Dr. Wall to bear with me for a second. UL had submitted a detailed plan to the HEA for the opera house site jut three days before the decision was made. Can he confirm that is correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Suddenly, three days later this was changed. Is Dr. Wall aware that this came before the governance board three days after UL submitted the application to the HEA? I am reliably informed that the board was told the deal had to be done by that evening. It appears that most members of the board were not aware of the Dunnes Stores site. As far as they were concerned, they had assembled to...

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: When he meets with the officials from UL next Monday, will he put this to them?

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Sorry-----

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Just a moment. What Dr. Wall just said about getting a letter is incredible. This university received €47 million in grants and had a deficit of €4 million that year. There were clearly issues arising from a range of matters and the HEA does this on the basis of a letter. Surely to God, as------

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Wait until I put the question, please.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I want to ask Dr. Wall the question.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Why would the HEA not require a detailed plan and a full development of costs for any site before writing the cheque? I find it incredible that the HEA would deal with things in such a casual manner. This is not buying sweets at the corner shop. This is millions of euro of precious taxpayers' money, which seems to be thrown around like confetti on the basis of letters received.

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