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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: It is a very good question, but I am answering questions on the proposals before us. I am happy to answer questions from the Deputy on the legislation. I have clarified the issue a number of times.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: I have finalised my contribution.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: It is set in legislation that ownership of the shares rests with the Minister. Unless the Minister agrees, nobody else can do it.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: If we take the example of Irish Water, with which I am most familiar, the legislation is very clear. The three shares are owned by Irish Water, the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government and the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. The legislation states that they can never be disposed of. What we are talking about here is about getting advice as...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: All I can say is that this legislation deals with a request from the line Minister, who has ownership of the entity, to ask NewERA to give professional advice.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: All I can say is that raising one's voice does not make one's argument any weaker or stronger. It just makes one more strident. The reality is very clear. The legislation states that the agency shall, if a Minister who is the relevant Minister requests it to do so, provide a project manager to do certain acts. I am most familiar with Irish Water. That can never happen in terms of the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: I can assure the Deputy that the issue is very clear. The Minister can only act on the powers based in the legislation, which are set up in the individual entity. For this reason, it is not possible to act ultra vires.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Subsection (3) does not give a Minister more powers in respect of the sale of State assets than he or she already has. It provides him or her with a new means of acquiring or disposing of an asset and allows him or her to ask that NewERA take charge of the asset or act on behalf of the asset. For this reason, I do not agree with the suggestion that State assets can be sold off willy-nilly...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Tá sé soiléir sa Bhille seo go gcaithfear an stiúradh a fhoilsiú agus a chur ar fáil go poiblí ionas go mbeidh a fhios ag daoine cad é an beart atá déanta ag an Aire. Uaireanta, bíonn commercially sensitive information i gceist anseo agus tá sé tábhachtach nach mbeadh an t-eolas sin ar fud na tíre. Tá sé...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Commercially sensitive information would not be published. The only example I can give is from Irish Water when the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, published a direction that he had given to the Commission for Energy Regulation on certain charges. That was transparent and open. I take the Deputy’s point on directions being published...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: It concerns the manner in which it will be published, not the form.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: It concerns how it is published on a website, in a newspaper or issued in a press release. It would not be appropriate to publish the corporate strategy and investment plans of commercial semi-State companies. It concerns the principle rather than the commercially sensitive parts.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: One would presume there would be no intention to publish the portion that was commercially sensitive.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: The section reads, “as soon as is reasonably practicable after giving a direction”. It would be a judgment call on that portion of it. All directions are subject to freedom of information legislation. Accordingly, they would be available in that context also. Obviously, the portions that would be commercially sensitive would be redacted.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Yes, the Minister must publish it in full.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: It would depend on what the direction was. I will come back to the issue on Report Stage.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Section 21 requires NewERA to prepare a report at least annually for the Minister responsible, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, as well as other relevant Ministers, on the financial performance of each designated body. The amendment would require the Minister to lay such a report before the Oireachtas. We need to consider this provision in its full context. NewERA’s...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Given that the financial reports of the bodies concerned are laid before the Oireachtas and are subject to freedom of information, this is adequately dealt with in legislation.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Sometimes the information in such a report might damage the asset on which it is reporting if it comes into the public domain. While the annual accounts are published, there might be issues which will inform the company or entity but it would not be in the public interest to disclose.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Section 21 requires NewERA to prepare a report at least annually for the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and other relevant Ministers on the performance of each designated body. This is separate from its report on its NewERA activities, which the agency will present as part of its annual report under section 13 of the 1990 Act. The amendment proposed would require the agency to...

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