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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: There is no committee of inspection. Mr. Carville cannot answer whether anyone checks things like hours and fees.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Could Mr. Carville answer it in private? We can get confidential information, as the Chairman has said.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Does Mr. Carville have to check with the liquidators or the Comptroller and Auditor General?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I am pleased to hear that the Department does not need to check with Kieran Wallace, as is the case with the other matter.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Mr. Carville can understand the frustration of the public with this. As I said, I believe this course has been taken because opportunistically. Since someone took a case last Friday, it has provided an angle for the Department and the liquidators to get out the gap. Given the nature of the case being taken, there is no reason why these questions cannot be answered. Is there a risk that...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Is there a risk that three accountants charge at the top rate for repetitive low-expertise work when one lower-grade employee could do that work?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: How would the Department know that? In a normal liquidation the committee of inspection could say that it sees three partners and two juniors working on a given tranche of work at so many hours and at such a cost. The committee may believe one junior would have sufficed for that work.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Since something is raised, Mr. Carville is not allowed to answer it. Is that it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: This is a basic question. Do we have oversight in the Department? Let me put it a different way. Is there expertise in the Department that could challenge something like that? Could someone in the Department decide that a team of three partners and two juniors on a case is too much and that one partner and one junior, or an accounts clerk or one basic chartered accountant would be enough?...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: What firm was it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I am asking the questions. Is that kind of scrutiny applied to this liquidation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: That is not ok at all. I asked all of these questions in the parliamentary questions I tabled in September. I got no answers in terms of scrutiny, and this was before any case. That led me to believe there was no scrutiny, particularly without a committee of inspection. I have no reason to think the situation has changed despite the fine expertise of KPMG, the same firm as the liquidator....

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Are these meetings minuted?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Can the minutes be provided on a confidential basis to the committee secretariat?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Okay. We would like to see those, if that is possible.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: If the Department has a problem with a fee in a liquidation, and if there is an argument about legal fees, can it refer it to a taxing master?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: If the Department is not happy with a fee it can direct that it will not pay it and that X will be paid instead.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Has this happened?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: It has not happened. Okay. There was a rebate. There was an €8 million rebate.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: There has been no such direction. I am sorry to conclude this, because I know Mr. Carville did not want to answer the question. There has been no direction to say the Department is not paying that fee because it did not want three partners working on it and it only wanted one.

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