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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: The caveat is that it is another case that may be before the courts. We need to confirm that there will not be another appeal.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: I welcome the witnesses to the meeting. My first questions will relate to the disposal of the Government jet. I will then ask about Vote 36, to be followed by questions on Vote 35. The Comptroller and Auditor General's report on the sale of the Government jet points out that since 1992 the jet had been maintained in accordance with the original manufacturer's recommended maintenance and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: What is the difference between the two?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: Presumably the unanticipated costs were based on the fact that the jet was so old. Those costs were growing. Was that not something that would be scoped? How did the Department arrive at the figure of €400,000 that was allowed for? It had to be surpassed on one occasion. Was there any point in having that figure in the first place if it had to be surpassed and the Department knew...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: Is there a correlation between the intensity of use and the level of maintenance and repairs? Is there a correlation between those two?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: Is there a correlation between the intensity of use of the aircraft and the level of maintenance?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: Mr. Quinn said that he does not agree that the recommended discount cash flow analysis of life cycle costs should have been undertaken in this case because of particular and extenuating circumstances. While it seems that the Department was somewhat over a barrel given the situation that it found itself in with regard to the jet's condition and where it was located in this case, could Mr....

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: The witness stated that the cost-benefit analysis was carried out in an informal manner. Can he detail how informal that was?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: For possibly just two years.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: So effectively, we would have had to spend €1.34 million to get the jet back in the air for two years.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: The jet was taken to Savannah and opened up. It was realised that the repair costs of it were not worth it, given the amount of time it was going to be available to the State, or furthermore, given the cost it would take to actually get it airborne in the US, which were costs of €1.34 million or €1.8 million respectively, as the witness said. The Department was left to make...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: I accept that the Department was caught in a very difficult situation, given perceived value versus actual value and given that the jet had been opened up. I am interested, though, in the actual sale because the process by which the sale went through is not out there in the public. There is a very closed environment. I can understand that because of the nature of who the Department was...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: Of course.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: What were they? Were they serious costs?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: Of course. The witness is saying that, effectively, this had to be sold quickly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: Gulfstream put it out to all purchasers of its equipment-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: Were there any other bids?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: Only one?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Alan Kelly: Is Mr. Quinn satisfied, given the Department's relationship with Gulfstream, that it definitely put it out to its full network of people?

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