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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: I do not understand the question. I hear all the time from small businesses about their impression we are gold-plating EU directives in Ireland and putting more in than we need to when we should not be. We absolutely have to understand the directives are there and where they can be helpful we should use them. In many instances, we have to use them but we should not be putting anything...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: The officials have been engaging-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: Three quotes are required if it is between €5,000 and €25,000. That can be done with a quick phone call. It sounds onerous but over time, it is not a small amount of money if it is being done regularly and across the country. We have to have some standards in place. The office is in touch with Leader about explaining exactly what we are trying to do.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: It remains to be seen what Brexit will mean for the Single Market, what access the UK will have to it and on what terms. The Office of Government Procurement has been preparing for Brexit-related issues in terms of risks we may face. We might already be contracting something from the UK that is an essential service we do not have here. Is there a gap there where we will not be able to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: It is being examined. It was raised in our recent road show engagement in Cavan because it came up quite a lot there. We are looking at it but I thank the Senator for raising it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: There is a framework in which the Office of Government Procurement works with four other areas of Government. They work to a common standard of professionalism and expertise in contracting out public services. Local authorities will put in place tender arrangements for certain goods and services but they will do it under the auspices of the Office of Government Procurement or in line with...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: The Office of Government Procurement.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: It is a local government management agency with that responsibility and function for local authorities where they contract goods and services. They interact with the Office of Government Procurement on how that should be done.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: I do not know if it is a statutory body. It is made up of representatives of the local authorities. They interact with the Office of Government Procurement, OGP, on the frameworks to be put in place.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: It depends on the framework that is put in place. For example, in regard to contracts for legal services for local authorities we might put a national framework in place but we might break it down into lots by region. Therefore, a local authority could contract from a person in the regional part of the framework. There are different ways of doing it. Much depends on the good or service...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: A lot of engagement takes place before a framework for a tender is put in place by the OGP. It engages with the relevant contracting authorities taking on the service, be that a local council or the committee of local councils. It will also engage with industry, recognising that it might have a better understanding of the matter at hand, to see what might be possible under a framework...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: It is because of the types of legal challenges we have seen in the past, including one unsuccessful bidder taking a legal challenge against the successful bidder and, as a result, flood protection works are delayed for five years. We are trying to do as much work as possible upfront on the Government side, in terms of planning, such that when we put a framework in place it is not open to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: It depends on the service and how it is broken down within a framework. What the Senator suggests is possible in theory but I do not know if that is happening now. The manner in which the framework can be designed would make that a possibility. A legal service might be broken down by region which might include three particular counties but another service, such as purchasing of vans, might...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: There are few different factors involved. Cost is a driving factor in terms of leveraging the overall buying power of the State. We are seeking to drive down costs. Lower costs is one of the main drivers behind this process. This is also about putting in place particular standards to ensure procurement is happening in the right way and also to ensure transparency in that regard. Another...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: Yes, over time. Again, it is dependent on how much a local authority continues to do itself, recognising the thresholds that are in place in regard to reference to the OGP platform.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: No. I imagine there will be a reduction in staff over time. However, a local authority cannot let staff go so they will be re-allocated. There will still be a procurement function within a local authority. Local authorities will still be able to procure goods and services under certain thresholds, depending on whether they are capital works or goods.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: I will check that for the Senator. In terms of how the framework works, the Office of Government Procurement will put the framework in place nationally but there might be many competitions run under the framework, in which case the procurement function of the local authority would be necessary. One could envisage that there would be a reallocation of staff from procurement sections in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: This reform is still a work in progress. All of the frameworks are not yet in place. As of now, not everything comes under a framework but the intention is to move towards that being the case for everything and everyone. The recent public service spend and tendering analysis report 2014 gives an understanding of the frameworks that have been put in place and what savings it is hoped to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Procurement Issues: Minister of State at the Department of Finance (1 Jun 2017)

Eoghan Murphy: We did that last year. I also met Opposition spokespersons in this area to give them a proper understanding of what was happening. We then had a briefing with Oireachtas Members. Following on from that, we started the roadshow. We can do another Oireachtas briefing. I am all for having a debate on this in the Dáil but it is a complicated area.

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