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Committee on Public Petitions: Decisions on Public Petitions Received (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: It is the view of the committee that we should keep the petition open as it is a live issue which mainly affects women. I am happy to await the update from the Department. It would be appropriate for the committee to keep the petition open on that basis. I think we are agreed on that. I acknowledge the visitors in the Public Gallery who I understand may be guests of Deputy Brendan Ryan. ...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: I am delighted the witnesses are here today because this has given us much clarity and has probably answered some of the questions we had on the processes undertaken. The witnesses should know that neither our committee nor I have had access to or seen the report.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: This committee is flying blind. We had a sense from the Minister's interaction with us prior to Christmas that the HIQA recommendations were being worked through. I certainly had the impression from that interaction with her that that was as a result of work that had flowed from the witnesses report. My questions are about the terms of reference. We have been given an impression that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: In response to a question from Deputy Rabbitte at the last committee meeting, the Minister stated: The report was written and conclusions, observations and recommendations were made. I answered Deputy Rabbitte's question about observations made that were outside the terms of reference and which went into policy issues. It was not provided for Oberstown House for people to review. People...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: On that basis, do the witnesses see any impediment, in the public interest, to this report coming into full public view?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: Again, I will quote from my own question to the Minister at our last committee meeting about this. I asked her "Was the process designed in such a way that if findings were made against persons or the entity, there would be a right of reply?" The Minister replied: Yes. They were asked to provide the report for the people concerned before there was a final report. That is what I am...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: The Minister did say following that-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: The Minister said: The Oberstown centre envisaged that the visit would take place before the reviewers finalised the report - that was included in the terms of reference - in order that comments could be taken into account in the final version of the report. However, the reviewers maintain that it would not have been possible to provide feedback until the final report had been completed....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: Does Professor Hardwick think the board of Oberstown has nothing to fear from the publication of the report?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: I mean from a personal responsibility point of view.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: And to embrace it. As a final question, I wish to ask about the methodology. Professors Hardwick and Goldson are both academics and most of us in this House are not, although we have interfaced with academics. Can the witnesses give us confidence that the methodology they used was in line with international best practice? I am not questioning their bona fides. There may be others who...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: I thank Professor Goldson.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: Professor Goldson made a point about the Minister's interaction in respect of the legal advice. I will go back and quote directly what the Minister said: I have indicated in terms of the legal advice as well as the experience of the board, the staff and my officials, that fair procedures were not followed. Therefore there is a lack of fairness there, which leads to the legal risks, which...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: Okay, so there is no reason from a legal standpoint for the report not to be published.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: To be helpful, the legal advice to the Minister is from the Attorney General's office and we do not have access to that legal advice in this House. Therefore, one can assume the representatives of Oberstown do not have access to that legal advice either. It would be contrary to the law. On that basis, my understanding is that the Minister has discretion, on the basis of the advice, as to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: This is a political domain, not a legal one. To reiterate the points made previously, we do not have sight of the report. However, we do have sight of the recommendations and take in good faith the statements made in respect of the implementation of those recommendations. What we find hard to reconcile is the non-publication of the report. I listened very carefully to Professor Kilkelly...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: What was the nature of the independent advice given to the board? Could she be more specific about it? What was the nature of the interactions with the Minister or her officials regarding that independent advice? When the Minister appeared before us, she stated that she had been advised by the board that its decision not to publish the report of the operational review was not one it either...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: Could I ask Professor Kilkelly to hold it there? In light of that very statement, was an opportunity given to those individuals, or were discussions held with them with a view to interacting with the two eminent experts in respect of the content and language of the report?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: That is not what I asked.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Seán Sherlock: There is a tendency sometimes in this House to go after people and witnesses. The dynamic of this committee has been such that it has been very patient on this issue. We seek to ensure witnesses' bona fides are respected. That is why we need very clear, succinct and simple language. My question was very simple. I want to know whether the individuals who might be implicated by virtue of...

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